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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Best Monitor for Color Grading?

Marc Wielage said:
The 4200 can handle 12-bit color and it can also do up to 60fps, and is a very fine monitor.
Click to expand...
And it can also do 600 nits of brightness. Stunning. Also, because of bigger size (42") and more forgiving off-center viewing, clients don't have to sit on top of the colorist:-)
 
+1. As much as I like FSI, I never looked back after working with the PVM 2541.

Tom.Wong said:
and the sony oled's seem to be picking up more steam than the dolby ever did. even the full bvm versions are almost half the price. OLEDS still have their issues, but man do they look good.

pvm 2541 owner. best bang for the buck imho after a good calibration. probably not gonna ever go back to lcd for critical color every again. oled or projector, that's it. and the entire pvm series is priced very aggressively. they are very close out of the box, but the reason they are so cheap is because of the quality control. they need a solid calibration out of the box, and a more often than the BVM series.
Click to expand...
 
Toms Sony oled is insane. It actually depresses me because the final product will never ever look that good anywhere else.
 
Mike Lary said:
What benefit would this provide in a proper grading environment?
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It has as much usefulness, as OLED. You can see these incredible images at 600 nits, while knowing that no one will ever be able to see such stunning images at home. Well, at least not for a while...
 
If it helps we have done a lot of display calibration, and we really, really do not recommend Plasmas for any form of colour critical work - due to ABL issues.

there is more information on that here: http://www.lightillusion.com/forums/index.php?action=vthread&forum=8&topic=42

This is true for all Plasmas, even those that are 'marketed' as being suitable for accurate calibration.
Believe me, we have profiled and attempted to calibrate many. many different Plasmas, and none are suitable for critical colour work.

Additionally, we have had an interesting thread on the FSI displays on Creative Cow - not a discussion we started, but it has resulted in FSI opening a very positive discussion with us regarding calibration of their displays - very similar to what we have already done for Penta HD2 Line displays.

This should help in getting a better level of 'calibration capable' displays to the market.

Do remember that not one of the displays we have ever profiled (except the 'Dolby') can accurately do P3 colour space.
This means the most accurate workflow is to calibrate accurately to Rec709 and use a conversion LUT to P3 or XYZ after grading.
If you really want to grade in a wider colour space you need to accurately profile the display, and then use that profile data to build a LUT to accurately convert to P3/XYZ for later delivery.

However, working in a larger non-defined colour space can cause problems if you are not fully aware of what you are doing...
And further, working in a larger colour space when the main delivery is Rec709 can be a real problem, as converting from a wider colour space to a smaller one is never 100% accurate - unlike going from a smaller space to a larger one.

Hope this helps.

Steve
 
Gah! I know that sucks but time and tech will catch up.

Timur Civan said:
Toms Sony oled is insane. It actually depresses me because the final product will never ever look that good anywhere else.
Click to expand...
 
We've never tested those displays, but AdobeRGB is not a very useful colour space, and the probe is a very old X-Rite i1D2 model, and was never that accurate.

What I would be interested in finding out is if users can access the internal LUTs for direct 3rd party calibration. That would make the display a lot more viable.

Steve
 
Timur Civan said:
Toms Sony oled is insane. It actually depresses me because the final product will never ever look that good anywhere else.
Click to expand...

Don't shed a tear, OLED is already here! Check your stuff on an a new OLED smartphone with 5" 1080p screen
or an OLED tablet just now coming out...
 
Appreciate Steve posting in here as it gives the discussion a solid reference point, pun intended.

For theatrical release projects: a P3 capable projector with decent calibration support.

For TV: the Dolby if you can afford it, everything else is some level of compromise. Perhaps the next generation of FSI with proper calibration will be the bang for the buck winner. The Penta HD2 monitors may be worth the cost, but only if you have sophisticated clientele and can charge enough to make the payments. I use the HP Dreamcolor and consider it best in its price class. I also have a Panny Plasma for client that has some fundamental and unresolvable issues (particularly in the highlights) but does 95% of the 709 gamut very well and, accuracy issues aside - it looks great to most clients.

Cheers - #19
 
I wouldn't worry too much about people not seeing the way I see things on OLED. I usually color grade for consistency and repeatability, not for the way it makes an image look for pleasure (i.e home theater system). There are other considerations when using a reference monitor (i.e calibration, its color drift, ability to show black level detail, emulate or approximate different color spaces, etc).

FWIW, FSI might have some OLEDs in the work.
 
Steve Shaw said:
If it helps we have done a lot of display calibration, and we really, really do not recommend Plasmas for any form of colour critical work - due to ABL issues.

there is more information on that here: http://www.lightillusion.com/forums/index.php?action=vthread&forum=8&topic=42

This is true for all Plasmas, even those that are 'marketed' as being suitable for accurate calibration.
Believe me, we have profiled and attempted to calibrate many. many different Plasmas, and none are suitable for critical colour work.

Additionally, we have had an interesting thread on the FSI displays on Creative Cow - not a discussion we started, but it has resulted in FSI opening a very positive discussion with us regarding calibration of their displays - very similar to what we have already done for Penta HD2 Line displays.

This should help in getting a better level of 'calibration capable' displays to the market.

Do remember that not one of the displays we have ever profiled (except the 'Dolby') can accurately do P3 colour space.
This means the most accurate workflow is to calibrate accurately to Rec709 and use a conversion LUT to P3 or XYZ after grading.
If you really want to grade in a wider colour space you need to accurately profile the display, and then use that profile data to build a LUT to accurately convert to P3/XYZ for later delivery.

However, working in a larger non-defined colour space can cause problems if you are not fully aware of what you are doing...
And further, working in a larger colour space when the main delivery is Rec709 can be a real problem, as converting from a wider colour space to a smaller one is never 100% accurate - unlike going from a smaller space to a larger one.

Hope this helps.

Steve
Click to expand...

Steve, how tricky is it to calibrate our Samsung LED consumer screen. going through the menus it seems to have most of the pro screen sliders and such (apart from the consumer once with different modes etc). Do not know the model but it's a 52 inch bought about a year ago and for some reason I find it to be quite far off. What would the easies way be to proceed with that one?

I know the first answer is... "buy a proper screen" but whats the secodn solution :)
 
Hi Björn, the obvious is you use an external LUT box to control the image via a calibrated LUT.

If using HDMI, as I suspect you are, the eeColor LUT box with LightSpace CMS Quick Profiling would work.
See the Home Cinema pages on the Light Illusion website for some thoughts on this.

Cheers,

Steve
 
Steve Shaw said:
Hi Björn, the obvious is you use an external LUT box to control the image via a calibrated LUT.

If using HDMI, as I suspect you are, the eeColor LUT box with LightSpace CMS Quick Profiling would work.
See the Home Cinema pages on the Light Illusion website for some thoughts on this.

Cheers,

Steve
Click to expand...

I think I have an AJA box between the flame and the HDMI port of the TV.

How much would you charge to come and calibrate it and my Eizo? Or even better help my techichan get it right over skype or such?
 
Mike, indeed a lot of the Light Illusion software tools are Windows as that is the most used OS in this industry... But, we are working on MAc and Linux versions for those software programs that are not yet multi-OS capable.

And it does actually state what OS each program works with on the relevant page of the website. I get that checked to make sure its more obvious.

Björn, we support all customers in gaining accurate calibration - either remotely or with on-site visits as required. You will need the basic calibration tools in-house though.

Cheers,

Steve
 
Steve Shaw said:
Mike, indeed a lot of the Light Illusion software tools are Windows as that is the most used OS in this industry... But, we are working on MAc and Linux versions for those software programs that are not yet multi-OS capable.
Click to expand...

Actually, you're website doesn't state what's Windows and what's Mac (if anything is). I was only able to determine this because of the instructions on the EECOLOR section has a file path that I recognize as a Windows file path. Otherwise the only other way to know is to try downloading the software. Not very user friendly to be frank. Also, I think there's a lot more Mac users out there than you think that would be interested in your products. I actually do not know a single person in post that doesn't use a Mac.
 
Mike, the eeColor software has nothing to do with Light Illusion.
That is eeColor's own software, again as it says on the web page...

Try looking at the actual Light Illusion software pages?
There it does indeed state what the requirements are.

As for Mac/Windows/Linux... demand dictates what we develop, and there has never been much demand from mac users.
Linux is picking up.

But, using the Network Java App that comes with LightSpace you can calibrate ANY display connected to ANY OS.
We always recommend running LightSpace and the associated programs on a cheap laptop so the programs are 'mobile' and can then calibrate anything.
We do have a fair number of Mac users that use this workflow very happily.
You really do not want to run calibration software on the same system as the main creative program - there are too many issues with interrupts, etc.
And. for system such as Scratch, Mistika, etc, they have 'plug-ins that connect directly yo the LightSpace laptop.

This is explained full on the website page, should you fancy having a read.

Cheers,

Steve
 
Steve Shaw said:
and the probe is a very old X-Rite i1D2 model, and was never that accurate.
Click to expand...

But it says on their website they have a special wide gamut sensor "It also features the SpectraViewII Color Calibration Solution, which combines a customized wide color gamut measurement sensor"
 
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