best forums for questions on jib, dolly, motion control workflow and hardware?

[Les C.]

I've got some very basic questions on using my ordered Scarlet in the studio.

For a simple talking head shot, I'd like to be able to have the camera 'swoosh' in dramatically, to add some motion and flair, but then be stable for the rest of the shot.

Most of the talking head stuff is done with a teleprompter.

I'm trying to figure out how to get the initial swooping shot (maybe with some kind of a jib), and then I guess cut to the teleprompter shot ... unless I should try to mount the telepromter on the jib also?

But, after I move into the final position, how would I keep it totally steady?

So - I'm obviously a total beginner on the hardware front, and would like to find some forums where a neophyte could get some help.

So many on the RED forums are actually shooting feature films - so I'm way out of my league here!

Thanks!

 

[Björn Benckert]

I've got some very basic questions on using my ordered Scarlet in the studio.

For a simple talking head shot, I'd like to be able to have the camera 'swoosh' in dramatically, to add some motion and flair, but then be stable for the rest of the shot.

Most of the talking head stuff is done with a teleprompter.

I'm trying to figure out how to get the initial swooping shot (maybe with some kind of a jib), and then I guess cut to the teleprompter shot ... unless I should try to mount the telepromter on the jib also?

But, after I move into the final position, how would I keep it totally steady?

So - I'm obviously a total beginner on the hardware front, and would like to find some forums where a neophyte could get some help.

So many on the RED forums are actually shooting feature films - so I'm way out of my league here!

Thanks!

As a VFX guy I would suggest the following.

1. Build a wire cam. it's not so tricky as you might think, a rope some wheels that goes on the rope and something to hang a tripod or such under neat.
2. put the telpromter and camera on the same rig.
3. use a rope to pull the package up to the person that will do the talking. (This move does not need to be super fast, on the contrary it could be slow so then it's easier to make it stable in post and you can also have it varispeeded in post to make a smooth and nice motion when the camera comes to a halt. Also make sure you have two or more tracking dots visible in frame (on a not to far away background)
4. Speed up the crashing in part in post. use the tracking dots for stabilization.

 

[Les C.]

Here's a link to one of the few grip forums I know of online

David Miles

Thanks David!

As a VFX guy I would suggest the following.

1. Build a wire cam. it's not so tricky as you might think, a rope some wheels that goes on the rope and something to hang a tripod or such under neat.
2. put the telpromter and camera on the same rig.
3. use a rope to pull the package up to the person that will do the talking. (This move does not need to be super fast, on the contrary it could be slow so then it's easier to make it stable in post and you can also have it varispeeded in post to make a smooth and nice motion when the camera comes to a halt. Also make sure you have two or more tracking dots visible in frame (on a not to far away background)
4. Speed up the crashing in part in post. use the tracking dots for stabilization.

I own Fusion and SynthEyes, so I understand where you are going with the tracking dots, but ... I'm unclear on the 'crashing' part?

Having always had a fixed camera, I've got a lot to learn about motion!

I was way off base with wanting to 'swoosh in dramatically' - and really need to study motion camera techniques, as my original thought would look terrible when filmed, way too much fast motion.

I've been looking at the Kessler tools for adding motion, and that may be the way I go.

But, I really need to get my head around creating camera moves that add to - rather then subtract from - the user experience ... to know what kind of motions I want to use in the first place.

Time to watch movies by great directors with the sound turned off and just focus on the motion!!!

Thanks Björn!

 

[Larry Kelly]

Hi Les, there's not too much detail so far regarding what you really want the shot to look like but with the information you have given us, I would recommend using a track and dolly with a small jib mounted on it. That way you can get a smooth, stable move towards you subject and have complete control of the camera. With this rig you can mount a light weight teleprompter if you need to as well. Component list.
track
skate board dolly
tripod
4 foot jib
teleprompter

If your move will be fast just make sure you are weighted down well and the tripod is strapped down to your dolly incase there is a sudden change in speed.

Larry

 

[Marc Wielage]

I would not try to move the camera very quickly -- I'd do all that in post. All the talking head stuff I've done has usually done the "swoops" that way, as a normal-speed camera move, and then sped it up with Twixtor or something like that.

Moving the camera quickly could result in potential accidents, particularly if you have problems halting the camera at the end of the shot. Not great when you're dealing with live talent.

If the on-camera prompter is an issue (size and weight), I'd consider two alternatives:

1) have the on-camera person memorize the first few lines of narration and not have to use a teleprompter at all. Then cut to a different shot after the swoop. Many, many documentaries initially start on the narrator, then cut on a head turn as the narrator takes a few steps while walking. It's a lot less static that way.

2) leave the teleprompter on the ground in an eye-line position, and erase it later with VFX (assuming this is a green screen shot or a white limbo). It's not that hard to do, but it does take time.

 

[Les C.]

Hi Les, there's not too much detail so far regarding what you really want the shot to look like but with the information you have given us, I would recommend using a track and dolly with a small jib mounted on it. That way you can get a smooth, stable move towards you subject and have complete control of the camera. With this rig you can mount a light weight teleprompter if you need to as well. Component list.
track
skate board dolly
tripod
4 foot jib
teleprompter

If your move will be fast just make sure you are weighted down well and the tripod is strapped down to your dolly incase there is a sudden change in speed.

Larry

Larry - I'm just after a way to add interest to a talking head shot.

Usually about 30 seconds of not-easily memorized material, which is why I use a teleprompter.

This is a green screen shot, with 1 person handling the shot, but ... it could also be done on location without a green screen.

The most interesting thing I've seen so far, is to motion control the camera to dolly from the right while the head is very slightly panning to the left (keeping the subject in the same place) so that there's some movement. I'd then use Synth Eyes or some other tracking in post to move the background to match the camera movements (for the green screen version).

With the Scarlet's 4K resolution, I can easily pan forwards in post.

I would not try to move the camera very quickly -- I'd do all that in post. All the talking head stuff I've done has usually done the "swoops" that way, as a normal-speed camera move, and then sped it up with Twixtor or something like that.

Moving the camera quickly could result in potential accidents, particularly if you have problems halting the camera at the end of the shot. Not great when you're dealing with live talent.

If the on-camera prompter is an issue (size and weight), I'd consider two alternatives:

1) have the on-camera person memorize the first few lines of narration and not have to use a teleprompter at all. Then cut to a different shot after the swoop. Many, many documentaries initially start on the narrator, then cut on a head turn as the narrator takes a few steps while walking. It's a lot less static that way.

2) leave the teleprompter on the ground in an eye-line position, and erase it later with VFX (assuming this is a green screen shot or a white limbo). It's not that hard to do, but it does take time.

I'm inexperienced with using motion, so these are great ideas.

I'm a bit confused about your #2 suggestion. Do you mean have the subject's eyeline point to the teleprompter, rather than the camera - so that the camera can be moved easily? It would have to stay pretty far back, as you get too many eye movements up close, but that's an excellent idea.

I'd just have to color match the shot as the teleprompter glass is about 3/4 stop and probably adds some slight coloration (for when I'd switch to the camera behind the teleprompter).