BEST Camera Rigs for RED EPIC .. alts to the Red Clutch

[Dave Ketelhut]

We have a Red Epic camera.

We're looking at alternatives to the Red Clutch camera rig. We want something universal, flexible, buildable and super user friendly- suitable for handheld and shoulder.

We're looking at:
Element Technica - Mantis?
x
P+S Technik
ARRI S-2

What's the best one out there and why?

 

[Björn Benckert]

This is what I put together... It's based on the clutch and then modified and bits added / taken away to make it work. Still I think need to change the actual shoulder pad to one that is more comfy and lower but it works pretty well as it is.

I added a top handle, side handle, lens support, CFF1. Also added some carbon rods and rod claps, nato rails etc to make a good adjustable viewfinder.
To the Red matte box we made our own neoprene rubber donut that is seated on a custom ring large enough to take the wide anamorphics with spinning fronts.
The CFF1 also got the2 cm wide gear wheel to accommodate for the hawks heavy "breathing"" when pulling focus.
The outrigger handle is really nice when the AC need to grab the camera of the CP's shoulder and it also is a perfect place for a AC monitor together with the +1 module.

We also have a top handle on the camera with small nato rails so the monitor can be moved to top of cam when needed without any tools. (there are a WC nato clamp on the monitor)

The way we seated a 19mm top mount with nato rail under the bars and on that we put a 19mm nato clamp with a rod the view finder that sits on a "clutch bit with a nato rail / clamp... makes it very possible to swap the viewfinder for a touch with nato clamp and still have it very adjustable in height and position.


So I will make a new "lowrider" comfy shoulder pad that sits on a 15 cm long dowtail and is slidable along it's dove tail then this thing is hard to beat. I tested pretty much everything out there and I know there is not one solution that got it all.


These guys has something good going: http://cinescopophilia.com/a-sneak-peak-at-the-titan-lite-camera-shoulder-rig/

but we use the XL batteries and such so i think then it makes it tough to balance with the titan. that needs the back weight. The way we got it set up we can slide the whole camera package over the shoulder until its in balance.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/107237384@N04/sets/72157644244775708/

Basically the above works with no tools and everything is adjustable and it got pretty much all angles covered and it's not to heavy and sturdy as a Mother"#€%.

 

[Paul Schneider]

I have the ET Mantis. It's very solid, well designed and lightweight. It basically folds up without removing any pieces or parts.

I bought it because it is the most commonly used and most bulletproof option for commercial sets in LA.

My only gripe with it are that the arms can be a bit to long for my tastes sometimes. For these situations I bought a couple shorter rosette arms and these have worked great.

 

[Björn Benckert]

I have the ET Mantis. It's very solid, well designed and lightweight. It basically folds up without removing any pieces or parts.

I bought it because it is the most commonly used and most bulletproof option for commercial sets in LA.

My only gripe with it are that the arms can be a bit to long for my tastes sometimes. For these situations I bought a couple shorter rosette arms and these have worked great.

Where do you put the viewfinder?

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

AeonCine was what I went with:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...ne-Titan-Lite-Review-(and-comparison-testing)

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

SpiderGrips from CAS rule. They are the standard on the East Coast. They fold small - lock onto rods quickly, etc.

 

[Tom Greenberg]

SpiderGrips from CAS rule. They are the standard on the East Coast. They fold small - lock onto rods quickly, etc.

Mark, if you are using the SpiderGrips, what do you do about a shoulder pad? The thing I dislike about most dovetail-based shoulder rigs is how high the camera sits. I wish someone made something with an inverted U-shape for the shoulder where the camera could sit down near chest level.

 

[Russ Fill]

I love my WC also, using the viewfinder mount from WC… easy peasy…only I added some custom wood handles. Makes all the difference.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...-handle-Ergonomics-Aesthetics-Wood&highlight= Wooden Wooden handles.jpg

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Mark, if you are using the SpiderGrips, what do you do about a shoulder pad? The thing I dislike about most dovetail-based shoulder rigs is how high the camera sits. I wish someone made something with an inverted U-shape for the shoulder where the camera could sit down near chest level.

http://www.abelcine.com/store/Elements-Universal-Shoulder-Pad-v2/

 

[Justin Chin]

I would recommend Ergocine and their trigger wooden handles. I find wooden handles (especially Ergocine) really comfortable because when I do single hand operations to focus, or access camera controls the grip doesn't twist and thus does not overly stress my hand. I have the clutch and have use several other grips for many years and wooden handles have been the the most comfortable.

Now looking at Mark's post, I'm thinking of replacing all the RED parts in favor for the SpiderGrip parts. I wish I knew about them before, but my HH kit has been a work in progress for too many years

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

i tried Clutch,W**den Cam shoulder set,Element Technica,Tilta etc.. all of them SUCKS!!!
with Clutch balancing pain in the ass worst design ever.
W**den Cam- Which dumbass thought putting swat rail on shoulder set for Lcd mounting? you cant use damn mattebox with that, back of touchscreen got scratches
none of them worked for me! so i gave up using on shoulder.IT IS NOT WORKING like it should.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

I thought the Clutch balanced it correctly compared to the older one? I was thinking about getting the Clutch... now I seem to think there is no hope for a balanced shoulder rig?

 

[Michael Lindsay]

PM me with a email and I'll send you a pic of a balanced rig..

 

[Paul Schneider]

Where do you put the viewfinder?

Viewfinder can be rigged a couple different ways. We do an EVF off the top or side of the camera...usually with a solid camera evf mount. When we need to run the red monitor, we have a couple of different options to clamp a nato rail to the arms so we can quickly slide it from the top of the camera to the arm when needed.

 

[Will Keir]

The clutch is terrible. I have a much better solution that allows full tilt and pan options with slightly less balance than The Clutch. If I get enough interest I'll make a production line of 50 for maybe 2000 each. Bug me, I'll make a video of my prototype, original made and modified by Matt Uhry.

My shoulder rig is 20 lbs with lens, 5" LCD, top handle, follow focus and rods. It's compact, you can walk through doorways with ease and it's stable, no crazy amount of shake.

I thought the Clutch balanced it correctly compared to the older one? I was thinking about getting the Clutch... now I seem to think there is no hope for a balanced shoulder rig?

 

[Will Keir]

I love your anger, you should see how I roll....

i tried Clutch,W**den Cam shoulder set,Element Technica,Tilta etc.. all of them SUCKS!!!
with Clutch balancing pain in the ass worst design ever.
W**den Cam- Which dumbass thought putting swat rail on shoulder set for Lcd mounting? you cant use damn mattebox with that, back of touchscreen got scratches
none of them worked for me! so i gave up using on shoulder.IT IS NOT WORKING like it should.

 

[Will Keir]

Bjorn,

The problem with your pics of the rig is that we can't see the setup on the operators shoulder. Can you post another picture? My guess is this rig rides high above based on the longer rails in back. Similar to the AllStar rig.

This is what I put together... It's based on the clutch and then modified and bits added / taken away to make it work. Still I think need to change the actual shoulder pad to one that is more comfy and lower but it works pretty well as it is.

I added a top handle, side handle, lens support, CFF1. Also added some carbon rods and rod claps, nato rails etc to make a good adjustable viewfinder.
To the Red matte box we made our own neoprene rubber donut that is seated on a custom ring large enough to take the wide anamorphics with spinning fronts.
The CFF1 also got the2 cm wide gear wheel to accommodate for the hawks heavy "breathing"" when pulling focus.
The outrigger handle is really nice when the AC need to grab the camera of the CP's shoulder and it also is a perfect place for a AC monitor together with the +1 module.

We also have a top handle on the camera with small nato rails so the monitor can be moved to top of cam when needed without any tools. (there are a WC nato clamp on the monitor)

The way we seated a 19mm top mount with nato rail under the bars and on that we put a 19mm nato clamp with a rod the view finder that sits on a "clutch bit with a nato rail / clamp... makes it very possible to swap the viewfinder for a touch with nato clamp and still have it very adjustable in height and position.


So I will make a new "lowrider" comfy shoulder pad that sits on a 15 cm long dowtail and is slidable along it's dove tail then this thing is hard to beat. I tested pretty much everything out there and I know there is not one solution that got it all.


These guys has something good going: http://cinescopophilia.com/a-sneak-peak-at-the-titan-lite-camera-shoulder-rig/

but we use the XL batteries and such so i think then it makes it tough to balance with the titan. that needs the back weight. The way we got it set up we can slide the whole camera package over the shoulder until its in balance.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/107237384@N04/sets/72157644244775708/

Basically the above works with no tools and everything is adjustable and it got pretty much all angles covered and it's not to heavy and sturdy as a Mother"#€%.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Almost all rigs have the center weight in front of the person holding it, making it very unbalanced for real hand held work. Having the camera weight not on the shoulder undermines the whole idea behind "shoulder rig". Michael Lindsay showed me some pics from his rig that has the balance right where it should be, like this one http://www.vocas.com/kits/handheld-kit-pro-underneath.

The only two problems I can see is that it might be tight for doing follow focus work by the person holding it and there doesn't seem to be a fast way of changing from this rig to a tripod. It would be nice if there was a rig that you could just "click on" the camera and then remove it, just like on a tripod. Please, can someone invent and sell to me?

 

[Michael Lindsay]

Sorry I wasn't clear..

Actually it was this one...

http://www.vocas.com/accessories/us...al-shoulder-base-plate-with-balance-dove-tail

And switching is quick!

The shape handle I use is key for me..

http://www.shapewlb.com/en/product/...ndle-arri-rosette_200.aspx?id_page_parent=111

With this you can, as you pull the camera from the shoulder, rotate it out of the way.

Ps it is def not perfect though... Vocus stuff is a bit 'soft' and the design could be improved a fair bit

 

[Michael Lindsay]

The basic problem is accessories manufacturers are not interested to create a 'European' style hand help setup for the Red Epic.

Everyone acts like handheld is a special occasion on set (like steady cam etc) ... The Frankenstein setups I have seen on reduser have scared me..

Simple needs

Low optical height
Keep camera small
Goes on a ARRI dove tail
One move from shoulder to tripod and back (no tools and less than 5sec)
It needs to balance! (With a prime lens/LMB5/FF)

The setup I showed Christoffer takes between 6-8 different companies accessories to work well?... That is not reasonable to ask most owners to work out.

PS fredrik callinggard's hand held system was a legitimate and very clever attempt to take on this problem.. If you contact him he may have for sale?