Battery/Storage Wisdom

[Neil Cronin]

I'm looking for some battery/storage wisdom while I wait on my Scarlet to Epic-X upgrade. I have some Redvolts right now, and while they work OK for my Scarlet setup, I want to check the difference between shooting 4K/24 6:1 compared to 5K/24 3:1.

Right now I have 2 Redvolts and 1 64GB mag.

Most of my shooting happens where 120V and Firewire 800 are handy, but I have some upcoming remote shots, so I'd like to check the current wisdom on this scenario.

Currently, two Redvolts come close to saturating my 64GB storage. That is, I can go out into the world with a blank 64GB card and two Redvolts, and they both run out at about the same time.

Some specific questions:

- Redbricks are 140Wh and Redvolts are 37Wh. Is the "hour" unit measurement roughly linear with the same capture settings? That is, if a Redvolt gives me ~20 mins of operation, will the Redbrick give me ~70 mins of operation with the same capture settings between an Epic and a Scarlet?
- How much does a Redbrick weigh?
- What is the cheapest way to attach a Redbrick to a rig, assuming it is already on rails? I do not come from a cinema gear background, and I am confused about what a V-Plate is. It looks like a physical mass holder + copper connector + cable-out? Certainly there is a way to tape something like this to rails for less than $500? (I don't advocate tape, just looking for the full gamut of possibilities.)
- Given the same battery, how do the operating time lengths differ for 5K/24 3:1 compared to 4K/24 6:1?
- Given the same shoot length, how does the storage change between 5K/24 3:1 compared to 5K/24 6:1 compared to 4K/24 6:1.

In other words, I know that going out without storage or electricity with my Scarlet that will give me about ~60GB of footage with 37*2Wh of battery. How will this change with an Epic-X?

Bonus questions:
- What happens to Redvolts and Redbricks at high altitudes and cold nights? Older batteries that I have had died instant and painful deaths in such situations. Modern ones seem fine. Do Red batteries survive or perish?
- Do the 48GB "Scarlet" mags work OK with Epic 5K/24 3:1? Do they work OK with 6:1, 9:1, 12:1? How do you balance this with the CPU/battery cost?

Thanks!
-neil

 

[Phil Holland]

Many thoughts for you.

First, generally speaking the Epic and Scarlet with Mysterium-X require about 1Wh per minute of operation. At least that's how most of us look at that. So for a 140Wh brick you'd get about 140 minutes of run time. Most likely you'll see closer to 120 minutes due to use and weather variations. So about two hours.

V-Mount batteries are one of two well accepted industry standards. The other being Anton Bauer Gold Mount. Basically both provide a secure way slide in and lock a battery into place. Some prefer Gold Mount, some prefer V-Mount. I use V-Mount because in "my world" they are everywhere and also power certain accessories I use. That's the path I chose. Everybody will be different.

In terms of the cheapest way of connecting a V-Mount Battery to your camera, Red's cheapest solution is:
http://www.red.com/store/products/battery-belt-clip-dsmc

Pretty inexpensive, comes with a decent length of cable, and provides the added flexibility of clipping to your belt. Many hand held/should shooters use these to keep the camera body weight down.

In terms of the absolute cheapest way to connect a V-Mount battery to your camera. Build or wire your own plate. Or go through the D-Tap power port on your battery (if it has one) and manufacture your own cable to connect to the camera brain.

Everybody is different and require different ways to power their camera. However, I will say that overall you are going to want more of a secure and rugged power solution. You don't want a cable coming unplugged or whatever. REDVOLTs lock in securing. I recommend finding a good secure locking mount that can be attached to where you desire it. Especially with the added weight of a V-Mount or Gold Mount battery.

In terms of how shooting at different resolutions and formats effects your battery it pretty much doesn't.

For fairly accurate recording times feel free to download my Red Quick Reference Guide (it's free and a pdf):
http://www.artbyphil.com/temp/redQuickReferenceGuide/RedQuickReferenceGuide.pdf

Or simply visit this thread:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?77349-Epic-M-and-X-Data-Sheet&p=989864&viewfull=1#post989864"

 

[Phil Holland]

And to just describe how every shooter and often job is different, my general mindset is to have enough "brick" power to operate my camera for a full day. That comes out to about 4 Red Bricks usually. That's the worst case scenario really and I'll often recharge them while shooting if possible.

I've had a couple gigs where I've gone through 6 bricks in a day.

Additionally, I often carry 4 fully charged REDVOLTs for compact rigging or remote shoots where I really don't want to carry much gear on me.

Most of my shooting days yield less than two hours of material shot. However, narrative can get heavy fast and it's not uncommon to roll 4 or more hours if dialogue is heavy or you are utilizing long takes.

In my experience most Directors, and most of the crew for that matter, don't like the camera powered down too often while shooting. I've physically have driven to other Redusers sets to drop off additional power because they have run out and didn't prep/pre-plan their day.

For me the best mindset is prepare for the worst case shooting scenario. In my case that sometimes predicting things like an ostrich running away with a battery. So I always have a bit extra power on hand.

For multi-camera shoots I usually rig out 4-6 bricks to each camera depending on the schedule.

 

[Phil Holland]

Bonus questions:
- What happens to Redvolts and Redbricks at high altitudes and cold nights? Older batteries that I have had died instant and painful deaths in such situations. Modern ones seem fine. Do Red batteries survive or perish?

They survive. You may notice a slight difference in run time. I've used my camera on the top of Mount Pinos in the snow and life was good.

I guess I should also add, a good place to start with bricks is two batteries. That should cover most light shooting days. I have days where I don't go through one brick even.

 

[ericyoung]

Little to add to Phil's excellent answers, except that like all batteries, their capacity suffers a lot when very cold (when approaching 4deg Celsius or below, keep them warm under your clothing - especially before use when current draw doesn't generate heat, and even during use in especially cold conditions).

 

[Nick Fury]

They survive. You may notice a slight difference in run time. I've used my camera on the top of Mount Pinos in the snow and life was good.

I guess I should also add, a good place to start with bricks is two batteries. That should cover most light shooting days. I have days where I don't go through one brick even.

Hi Phil,

If one is backing into the Red camera, so to say..., and planning toward battery/AC power, from the go get, would you endorse a side handle and one Red battery, for handheld configuration-non touchscreen monitor, and a PAG Link system, with V mounts (https://www.paguk.com/landing/PAGlink), for So Cal based users?

Thank you very much

Fury

 

[Chad Lancaster]

The paglink batteries are great, with the hub you can power all kinds of accessories. I run a Kessler cinedrive system and our epic off the paglink system. If your trying to go handheld lightweight as possible, then the redvolts are the answer.

 

[Nick Fury]

The paglink batteries are great, with the hub you can power all kinds of accessories. I run a Kessler cinedrive system and our epic off the paglink system. If your trying to go handheld lightweight as possible, then the redvolts are the answer.

Hi Chad,

That was the idea, regarding one or two redvolts available for lightest net weight setup. Regarding the Pag's and Red cameras, any reports of camera performance isues, with those batteries, especially as it relates to voltage variances?

Thank you very much

Fury

 

[Phil Holland]

If one is backing into the Red camera, so to say..., and planning toward battery/AC power, from the go get, would you endorse a side handle and one Red battery, for handheld configuration-non touchscreen monitor, and a PAG Link system, with V mounts (https://www.paguk.com/landing/PAGlink), for So Cal based users?

PAGlink is an interesting system. I've had them on my camera and didn't run into issues, but I've heard of "weirdness". There's a few PAGlink users here on the boards and they probably have more hours with them than I do.

The way my mind works is:

- Batteries for typical production = some sort of V-Mount Solution 140Wh or larger
- Portable for flight = REDVOLT XL or smaller V-Mount/Gold Mount
- Ultra Portable = REDVOLT

In terms of the DSMC Side Handle, I don't know if there's a bigger fan out there in terms of what it offers. The added keys than you can custom map is so very important to how I operate the camera. Additional and handy record button, also exposure and focus tools right there on the fly. I also use it currently to adjust my aperture with electronic lenses, however, in the future I will be controlling the Motion Mount through this thing, pretty much just like Red showed at NAB this year.

I actually purchased the Side Handle for those operation features. The added benefit is that I can make the camera very small and lightweight.


A hot tip that I guess some folks don't know about is if you are navigating the on screen Red menu and say are on shutter speed hitting "up" on the directional pad accesses the expanded menu for that feature. Probably showed 10 people that and for whatever reason they missed it.

 

[Chad Lancaster]

The only problem i've had with my paglink batteries is sometimes it shows the battery data and sometimes it doesn't, but i've been told by their support that it needs a firmware update which they are sending me at the moment.

 

[Nick Fury]

PAGlink is an interesting system. I've had them on my camera and didn't run into issues, but I've heard of "weirdness". There's a few PAGlink users here on the boards and they probably have more hours with them than I do.

The way my mind works is:

- Batteries for typical production = some sort of V-Mount Solution 140Wh or larger
- Portable for flight = REDVOLT XL or smaller V-Mount/Gold Mount
- Ultra Portable = REDVOLT...

Hi Phil,

With the linked Vmount PAG's, the typical production 140Wh and larger, separate size nattery requirement goes away, whilst allowing travel friendly power...No? Of course, this is whisper "weirdness" aside.

Thank you very much

Fury

 

[Phil Holland]

With the linked Vmount PAG's, the typical production 140Wh and larger, separate size nattery requirement goes away, whilst allowing travel friendly power...No? Of course, this is whisper "weirdness" aside.

Yep. So you could potentially be killing two birds with one battery system.

 

[Nick Fury]

Yep. So you could potentially be killing two birds with one battery system.

There seems to be a circumspect vibe here..."potentially." Is there some, additional trepidation regarding the linking system, per se?

Thank you very much

Fury

 

[Phil Holland]

There seems to be a circumspect vibe here..."potentially." Is there some, additional trepidation regarding the linking system, per se?

They don't exactly fit my needs, but I did test them out for about an hour. In that hour they ran my camera fine, so I have no complaints. I already had 8 larger V-mounts by the time the PAGlinks were out. I tend to mostly need batteries in the 140-160Wh range. I use them nearly every day.

 

[Neil Cronin]

Thanks all for the info. Two questions that I'd still love answers to:

- How much does a Redbrick weigh?
- Do the 48GB "Scarlet" mags work OK with Epic 5K/24 3:1?

TIA!
-neil

 

[Jon Thomasberg]

Neil,

Brick weight -- can't help there.
48G SSD on Epic = No. The 64G is the lowest that will work on Epic.

HTH,

Jon

 

[Tom Greenberg]

RED Bricks weigh .96Kg...or about 2.1 lbs. each