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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Basic Audio Problems

Everything. What are the differences from the old and new board? Its 24bit/48kHz, 24/96, 24/48? Digital/Analog, new i/Pins? Whatever you can say or when will you guys release the date for specs? Thank you.:biggrin:
 
Audio Board

Audio Board

What are the differences from the old and new board? Its 24bit/48kHz, 24/96, 24/48? Digital/Analog, new i/Pins? Whatever you can say or when will you guys release the date for specs?
Click to expand...

Its the same overall "spec" ( 24-bit 48 Khz ) but the performance is substantially better as a result of the following -

Clean phantom power

Clean mic pre-amps

Adjusted inputs levels (same as with old board with special cables)

Improved line out and microphone output
 
Stuart, my guess is people want to know some of the specific specs such as signal to noise ratios, and things like this

161_1222967153.jpg
 
Another audio newbie here.

With the new audio upgrade, can I use (get away with) pro mics and cables plugged directly into Red and get a sound quality good enough for a feature "indie" movie or do I still need a field mixer like sound devices 302 or 442?
 
Audio Board

Audio Board

With the new audio upgrade, can I use pro mics and cables plugged directly into Red and get a sound quality good enough for a feature "indie" movie
Click to expand...

Yes, for sure.
 
Thank you Stuart! You have been very helpful in answering my questions as soon as possible. Thank you again!
 
Jason Ing said:
Another audio newbie here.

With the new audio upgrade, can I use (get away with) pro mics and cables plugged directly into Red and get a sound quality good enough for a feature "indie" movie or do I still need a field mixer like sound devices 302 or 442?
Click to expand...

Until professional sound mixers and post production editors weigh in on the new hardware and firmware revisions you should treat all shoots as sync sound shoots
 
Stuart English said:
Its the same overall "spec" ( 24-bit 48 Khz ) but the performance is substantially better as a result of the following -

Clean phantom power

Clean mic pre-amps

Adjusted inputs levels (same as with old board with special cables)

Improved line out and microphone output
Click to expand...

You say that the camera is still the same overall spec... but several 3rd party tests have show that the RED does not record in full 24bit and that it is less the 16bit when analyzed through any pro audio programs, including ProTools v7.4, of which I have sat in on.

I also spoke with a editor tonight at Sony who has some footage coming tomorrow from a current spec RED and the tests they received earlier in the week from the same unit matched pre upgrade audio that they had on the sever. This project is sync sound and they have no desire to use the mono mix camera audio for anything but scratch track for rushes. I was also told that the on camera audio sync seems to still be off +/- 2 or 3 frames.
 
farroutpro said:
This project is sync sound and they have no desire to use the mono mix camera audio for anything but scratch track for rushes. I was also told that the on camera audio sync seems to still be off +/- 2 or 3 frames.
Click to expand...

I don't know what they're doing but I just shot a feature with all audio recorded on RED with external phantom power using microphone in levels. It sounds better than my HD-100 or HVX-200 ever did. I've never seen any out of sync frames though I haven't shot any very long takes.

That's not to say people who already have $10k in dual system sound gear and are used to that workflow won't prefer to work that way. But anyone who's used to recording sound in camera and likes that workflow should find RED to be the cleanest camera they've recorded into.
 
QT Proxies, No Audio!

QT Proxies, No Audio!

We seem to be experiencing a rare audio problem. Red has been notifies and is working on. Any ideas would be appreciated as the crew is about 1000 miles from me, so have to do this by remote control.
Here's the situation:
2 cameras--latest version of Build 16 on both recording to Red Hard Drives, both shooting the same interview.
Audio is going through a mixer and then into both cameras via Red mini-XLR adapters--line level.
Playing a clip back through the camera plays picture and audio fine on both cameras.
Going into RedAlert or RedCine the datatech can't get ANY audio to play from the QT proxies on one of the cameras.
Trashing the proxies, and trying to recreate them through RedAlert doesn't work either.
Audio on QT Proxies on the other camera are fine.
This obviously isn't a "They're F*&ked" situation as there is audio, but it is making everyone a bit nervous.
The last thing they are going to try (at end of day) is do a complete re-install of the firmware.)
Any other thoughts?
Thanks a lot!
 
I have a loud electronic hum from any channel of audio that is switched on, even if a mic is connected or not. I'm using a mic with it's own power, on build 16 and the hum is VERY loud. what is going on. I'm in the middle of a feature shoot. HELP.
 
Audio performance

Audio performance

several 3rd party tests have show that the RED does not record in full 24bit and that it is less the 16bit when analyzed through any pro audio programs..

I was also told that the on camera audio sync seems to still be off +/- 2 or 3 frames.
Click to expand...

With all due respect to third party tests, but the RED ONE does record at 24-bit depth.

And audio / video to timecode sync is within +/- 1 frame, usually 0.


Shooting sound on the RED ONE from microphone level inputs has had its issues - mainly with the pre-amp noise floor and phantom power - hence some "16-bit equivalent performance" comments - but this is addressed by the new board.

As always do your own tests..... its your project.
 
Thanks for your Red Audio comment. We experienced the same issue with a Sony phantom shotgun [NV1]. Had low audio and hissy noise as well. A Sennheiser G2 wireless [self-powered] was also tried and was initially poor. However, when we ramped up the output of the Senn receiver to +12, and the Red to +47db, we got good levels and no apparent hiss in the headphones. Having to ramp the system to the max is not certainly a confidence builder but we downloaded the file into FCP and the playback sounded fine.

We then hooked the Sony up to a Shure M267 mixer and tried the MIC output fed into the Red. We sent 0db tone to the camera and, at +50db the tone pegged at yellow on the Red audio meter. We then plugged the shotgun into the mixer and the sound was excellent.

We then set the output of the mixer to LINE and with 0db tone feeding from the mixer we then adjusted the Red to +54db [max] and the signal was still a little lower than with the MIC output from the mixer.

We also noted that the level readings on the mixer were lower than the reading on the Red for the same signal. We got the two to match when we set the Red to +40db.

So it looks like Red wants you to run at +40db or so to register a normal signal. Note: our Red is build #16.

If people have an investment in phantom powered mics it looks to us like all roads with Red lead to a mini field mixer.
 
Audio questions

Audio questions

We seem to be experiencing a rare audio problem.

Audio is going through a mixer and then into both cameras via Red mini-XLR adapters--line level. Playing a clip back through the camera plays picture and audio fine on both cameras. Going into RedAlert or RedCine the datatech can't get ANY audio to play from the QT proxies on one of the cameras.
Click to expand...

Commented elsewhere on this, its possible the mixer or the input cables are phase inverting the audio. If they are, you wouldn't notice that on the camera PPM meters, or when listening to the camera recorded sound via headphones.

Taking the recording to QT Player, if one of the signal's phases are out, it will cancel, so any audio level adjustment (which affects both channels) will have no apparent effect.

You could check your input phase setup by recording the same line signal to channels 1 and 3, or 2 and 4. Then put the HEADPHONE output as QUAD MIX. Then you should either hear a louder signal or none in the headphones.
 
Stuart English said:
Commented elsewhere on this, its possible the mixer or the input cables are phase inverting the audio. If they are, you wouldn't notice that on the camera PPM meters, or when listening to the camera recorded sound via headphones.

Taking the recording to QT Player, if one of the signal's phases are out, it will cancel, so any audio level adjustment (which affects both channels) will have no apparent effect.

You could check your input phase setup by recording the same line signal to channels 1 and 3, or 2 and 4. Then put the HEADPHONE output as QUAD MIX. Then you should either hear a louder signal or none in the headphones.
Click to expand...
Stuart,
After more testing, that is exactly what was happening. Unfortunately it was an out of state production, with an audio guy we'll never see again, so can't do any further testing, but everything is pointing to the fact that something was up with his equipment/work practices that were causing this issue.
 
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