Bailout Alternative???

[jpp]

It's already happening:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10142008/news/politics/bogus_voter_booted_amid_probe_of_acorn_133540.htm
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1223973289273860.xml&coll=2

Here we ago again. Like so many other Republican-fabricated "issues", there's no equivalency here: voter suppression in Florida got GWB "elected" in 2000. Tens of thousands of Africa-Americans were illegally purged from the voter rolls, with no serious doubt those purges were intentional. It's a matter of public record, and the NAACP won lawsuits on the question. Much the same went on in Ohio in 2004 and elsewhere. Check it out.

Whereas GWB's Justice Department has spent years looking into so-called voter fraud (meaning Democrats registering fictitious voters), and found virtually nothing. How many people have been indicted? One? Two? How many false votes were ever cast?

Will Republicans absolutely never play fair? Then again, when your platform is deeply unpopular with the public, I guess you need to suppress votes wherever you can find them.

And we wonder why civil conversation is no longer possible in this country.... Talk to Republicans privately, and they'll often admit that the party has poisoned the national discourse on a host of subjects. No less than Ronald Reagan's budget director, David Stockman, admitted years ago that the the GOP had made reasoned debate on questions like taxes impossible.

Unfortunately, this candor never surfaces in public life. The burden of being a Tory, I guess, in what's supposed to be a democratic country.

 

[number6]

And then there's this scary stuff:

Not only intimidation, but violating these people's free speech rights.

What am I seeing here? Were these acts of vandalism against people who had the audacity to hope they could voice their support for a ticket without having their property attacked and destroyed by members of the "we will destroy you if you do not agree with us!" party?

 

[Kenn Christenson]

What am I seeing here? Were these acts of vandalism against people who had the audacity to hope they could voice their support for a ticket without having their property attacked and destroyed by members of the "we will destroy you if you do not agree with us!" party?

Yup. Talk about "poisoning the discourse..." When you can't even have a bumper sticker on your car without worrying some nut case is going to key it - something's definitely wrong!

 

[jpp]

Yup. Talk about "poisoning the discourse..." When you can't even have a bumper sticker on your car without worrying some nut case is going to key it - something's definitely wrong!

If you really think a defaced vehicle (if that's what it really was) is the equivalent of hundreds of hours a week of Republican hate speech (Limbaugh, Hannity, Savage, Beck, O'Reilly, etc.), a Congress full of ideologues so far to the right they'd be laughingstocks in any other industrial democracy, a legislature which wouldn't even allow a duly elected Democrat to govern (remember Bill Clinton?), and a national Republican committee which routinely calls the Democratic opposition, including war amputees, traitors and terrorists, well.... I guess you would take comfort in the sight of a defaced vehicle.

Again, all these phony, false equivalencies.... Sometimes one wishes the Democratic party was vicious and unrelenting. Then at least it could compete on a fair basis.

 

[number6]

Yup. Talk about "poisoning the discourse..." When you can't even have a bumper sticker on your car without worrying some nut case is going to key it - something's definitely wrong!

Kenn, maybe you should tone doun all the inflammatory links to newspapers and photographic evidence of human failings. It seems to stir up the pot boilers.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Just before the '04 election, there were multiple incidents of cars being vandalized at Denver International Airport. Obviously intentional damage such as key scratches, slashed tires, busted windows, kicked-in doors, etc.. Cops finally figured out that the one thing all the cars had in common were bumper stickers or windows stickers supporting Bush/Cheney. I think they caught the guy, but don't recall. Other instances of vandalism going either political direction were common, but that was the major incident.

This year there's been more of the same. The worst one yet was a wealthier suburb of Denver where most houses tend to Obama/Biden signs in their yards. Most all the signs have been vandalized or destroyed, houses and cars vandalized, tens of thousands in damage, even one instance of attempted arson.

Three juniors at a local high school were expelled a couple weeks ago for wearing "NOBAMA - keep the change" T-shirts to a student assembly, of which they were not a part of, only there as audience members. They have been reinstated and the two teachers and vice principal who expelled them are supposedly being questioned.

Sad, very sad.

 

[Kenn Christenson]

Won't it be a wonderful world when you can describe everything you disagree with as "hate speech" like they tried in Canada's ridiculous kangaroo courts? We're coming, Mr. Orwell. :turned:

 

[jpp]

Sad, very sad.

And we're supposed to conclude that after 8 years of nearly total Republican rule, and virulent daily attacks on Democrats by both politicians and media figures, that it's Republicans, not Democrats, who are the real victims of intolerance?

Or did I simply forget that, if you're a Republican, someone else is always to blame?

You've ruled the world for the last 8 years, your side all but owns talk-radio and talk TV, big business is your permanent ally, and even the op ed pages of the most "liberal" newspapers are at least 50% right-wing, but you're still the victims of liberals. Gee, life is hard.

 

[Kenn Christenson]

You've ruled the world for the last 8 years, your side all but owns talk-radio and TV, and even the op ed pages of the most "liberal" newspapers are at least 50% right-wing, but you're still the victims of liberals. Gee, life is hard.

Oh, if only it were true. :turned:

 

[number6]

If you really think a defaced house (if that's what it really was) is the equivalent of hundreds of hours a week of Democratic hate speech (The entire cast and crew of MSNBC etc.), a Congress full of ideologues so far to the left they'd be laughingstocks in any other industrial democracy, a legislature which wouldn't even allow a duly elected Republican to govern (remember Dick Nixon?), and a national Democrat committee which routinely calls the Republican opposition, including war amputees, traitors and terrorists, well.... I guess you would take comfort in the sight of a defaced yard sign.

Again, all these phony, false equivalencies.... Sometimes one wishes the Republican party was vicious and unrelenting. Then at least it could compete on a fair basis.

disclaimer: based on the work of literary giants who have preceded me.

 

[jpp]

Won't it be a wonderful world when you can describe everything you disagree with as "hate speech" like they tried in Canada's ridiculous kangaroo courts? We're coming, Mr. Orwell. :turned:

Perhaps "hate speech" was a poor choice of words; I didn't mean to recall "hate speech" crime, which is a dangerous notion.

If we change "hate speech" to "right-wing propaganda" would you be happier?

 

[Matthew Rogers]

You've ruled the world for the last 8 years, your side all but owns talk-radio and talk TV, big business is your permanent ally, and even the op ed pages of the most "liberal" newspapers are at least 50% right-wing, but you're still the victims of liberals. Gee, life is hard.

I call BS on the TV. Only one channel would be even remotely conservative/republican--FoxNews. ABC/CBS/NBC/CNN are all to the left of the middle from my point of view. I also don't know what papers you are talking about. Pretty much every big paper I've read is liberal.

Matthew

 

[jpp]

If you really think a defaced house (if that's what it really was) is the equivalent of hundreds of hours a week of Democratic hate speech (The entire cast and crew of MSNBC etc.), a Congress full of ideologues so far to the left they'd be laughingstocks in any other industrial democracy, a legislature which wouldn't even allow a duly elected Republican to govern (remember Dick Nixon?), and a national Democrat committee which routinely calls the Republican opposition, including war amputees, traitors and terrorists, well.... I guess you would take comfort in the sight of a defaced yard sign.

Again, all these phony, false equivalencies.... Sometimes one wishes the Republican party was vicious and unrelenting. Then at least it could compete on a fair basis.

disclaimer: based on the work of literary giants who have preceded me.

Your reasoning, number6, has about as much value as your promise to me: utterly worthless. Also, the literary style isn't equaled by the material you bring to hand.

But you have succeeded: I want nothing more to do with you or this thread.

 

[Kenn Christenson]

Kinda have a warm "Rosey vs Hasselbeck" feeling all of a sudden.

 

[number6]

Kinda have a warm "Rosey vs Hasselbeck" feeling all of a sudden.

Don't get too comfortable. He'll eventually forgive us and return. He needs us.

 

[Matthew Rogers]

BTW, I am really sick of the word "intolerance" being thrown around. I have been told by many people, whom I would consider liberal, that I was "intolerant" of them because of my conservative view. However, they never realize that they are "intolerant" of my views when they say that. It seems like anytime someone disagrees with someone else, they are labeled as intolerant instead of, just a different opinion.

Matthew

 

[Kenn Christenson]

BTW, I am really sick of the word "intolerance" being thrown around. I have been told by many people, whom I would consider liberal, that I was "intolerant" of them because of my conservative view. However, they never realize that they are "intolerant" of my views when they say that. It seems like anytime someone disagrees with someone else, they are labeled as intolerant instead of, just a different opinion.

Matthew

All I can say is... AMEN, bro!

 

[number6]

BTW, I am really sick of the word "intolerance" being thrown around. I have been told by many people, whom I would consider liberal, that I was "intolerant" of them because of my conservative view. However, they never realize that they are "intolerant" of my views when they say that. It seems like anytime someone disagrees with someone else, they are labeled as intolerant instead of, just a different opinion.

Matthew

Used to be called "guilt trip". Just something one person uses to gain the upper hand over another. I am probably (definitely) guilty of the same type tactic.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

And we're supposed to conclude that after 8 years of nearly total Republican rule, and virulent daily attacks on Democrats by both politicians and media figures, that it's Republicans, not Democrats, who are the real victims of intolerance?

Or did I simply forget that, if you're a Republican, someone else is always to blame?

Er... :umm: I was giving examples of how our current political climate drives people to trample on the rights and property of others. I gave three examples, one of which was republican party supporters doing the vandalism, so I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

My point is that people are assholes. People vandalize others just for the sake of a sign on their front lawn or a bumper sticker. Would you have looked at my post in a different light had all three examples been talking about attacking Obama supporters? Or still the same reaction, just because it's from me?

Anyway, in the spirit of what I was originally talking about, here's this one:
http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/1275041.html

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

BTW, I am really sick of the word "intolerance" being thrown around. I have been told by many people, whom I would consider liberal, that I was "intolerant" of them because of my conservative view. However, they never realize that they are "intolerant" of my views when they say that. It seems like anytime someone disagrees with someone else, they are labeled as intolerant instead of, just a different opinion.

Yep. Word.
:red_bandana: