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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Bad news guys. Re: fps in build 4

greg that sounds really sick! i'm also super into the 120fps stuff, and the 60fps when i want higher res 2k, sometimes 48fps at 3k...its really awesome to hear a commercial production did 120fps. a gig i was on did some 60, 48, and i think 90... i find myself typically shooting off speed on my own scarlet stuff more then 24 or 30, and i really like the images.

not to get lumped in with some of the negativity in this thread, but perhaps one day another firmware can do some sort of boosts, i mean honestly i love this offspeed stuff i am doing, but i rarely need long shots, those are more for when i undercrank (which i am also a big fan of). maybe boosts won't melt the sensor if they aren't for continuous shooting? in either case i am appreciative of the shorter black balances, undercranks, power management (is that for v mounts as well or volts only?) and will look into the other features, but thought those stood out as things that interested me specifically.

thanks red, happy holidays!
 
Brian Merlen said:
not to get lumped in with some of the negativity in this thread, but perhaps one day another firmware can do some sort of boosts, i mean honestly i love this offspeed stuff i am doing, but i rarely need long shots, those are more for when i undercrank (which i am also a big fan of). maybe boosts won't melt the sensor if they aren't for continuous shooting? in either case i am appreciative of the shorter black balances, undercranks, power management (is that for v mounts as well or volts only?) and will look into the other features, but thought those stood out as things that interested me specifically.

thanks red, happy holidays!
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That is not going to happen. RED will not boost frame rates via firmware update after they have told us that Scarlet can't do faster frame rates because it has limited hardware.
 
i'm not sure you get what i mean, i mean like 2.8 second roll times... heat won't be an issue, throughput might be though...just an idea... i mean i'm planning on dragonizing and perhaps getting an a cam epic anyway so its not like a big deal either way
 
Greg, please be sure to post. That sounds awesome!
 
What is it about this extended frames rates, like its the basis of a great camera. How much slo-mo are you really going to be using?

In my book the basis of great camera is what it does in 24/25fps which Scarlet exceeds in. Extended frame rates buy or hire an Epic.
 
Christopher Lowden said:
I can tell you of one thing that is in the manual that has not been implemented and for which i bought the camera ... Audio compression. A year ago, audio compression was indicated as being a software enhancement. It now seems that you need a IO box that costs a fortune.
I bought a camera that still does not do all that is written in the original release manual. I have no regrets about buying a scarlet but if red was as clean as it their competitors, they would have delivered a full specs camera a year ago.
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Audio compression?
 
Hey guys, kinda jumping into the thread a little late, though I have been following everything. I have a tech question and do not personally know if it is possible. First off I would like to say that I love my Scarlet and am extremely grateful that RED keeps adding great features. I see a lot of people talking about higher frame rates. I am wondering if it would every be feasible to still capture a 4K image in 24P but gain the use of the entire sensor. Just to max our field of view. Not really worried about shooting in 5K (or 6K next year). I'm sure I will jump on an Epic soon enough. I'm just interested to see if that would technically be possible. Anyone know?
 
Currently only through SDI or HDMI can you see the full 5K sensor scaled to 1080 with the Look Around function activated.

Michael Jarvis said:
Hey guys, kinda jumping into the thread a little late, though I have been following everything. I have a tech question and do not personally know if it is possible. First off I would like to say that I love my Scarlet and am extremely grateful that RED keeps adding great features. I see a lot of people talking about higher frame rates. I am wondering if it would every be feasible to still capture a 4K image in 24P but gain the use of the entire sensor. Just to max our field of view. Not really worried about shooting in 5K (or 6K next year). I'm sure I will jump on an Epic soon enough. I'm just interested to see if that would technically be possible. Anyone know?
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DL Fitch said:
Clearly Scarlet was crippled in frame-rates/sizes to protect the Epic - I think most of us can agree on that at least. Many were hoping, given the increased competition from other camera manufactures, that RED would ease off on those restrictions to help Scarlet compete against cameras like the F55. Is that really so wrong? It should NOT be construed as whining about the existing features in this build.
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Terry VerHaar said:
I think you don't know your facts or your history. According to the best facts we have, the Scarlet was NOT methodically crippled. It uses ASICs that couldn't meet the speed specs of the Epic (in effect, "rejects"). Thus, we get less performance out of the Scarlet boards. This is a financially viable way for RED to sell the Scarlet at a lower price. So, NO, we can't "agree on that."
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Clearly you Terry don't know your fact or history either...

Scarlet does not have ASICS rejected from Epic. Scarlet has the first generation ASIC that was meant for Epic v.1 - but after the addition of HDRx and many other things the v.1 ASIC was no longer sufficient for Epic. Therefore v.2 ASIC was designed and developed for the current Epic, but since so much effort and funding went into the v.1 ASIC - it was decided to use it for Scarlet - with its given limitations... Reject is something different entirely. It would instigate that the current v.2 ASIC are made and some don't meet the specs for current Epic and are therefore rejected and "thrown" into Scarlet. Which is clearly not the case...

So NO - Scarlets don't use "rejects" ASICS - they use the 1st gen ASICs that are perfectly operational to their original designs and specs...

Also - its funny how every time there is even a hint of "higher frame rates for Scarlet" - bunch of mostly the same guys flock in and start the "get an Epic" mantra, rants and insults. Completely ignoring that what we were hoping for were Wide-Screen ratio modes - which do allow for higher frame rates as when compared to their full-height equivalent (i.e. 5K-WS vs 5K-FF) without asking for the camera to do "more"...

I am an optimist and know that the WS modes will come to Scarlet one day - hopefully sooner then later...

And yes - 100% agreed - the new build is amazing! No doubt... Rock on RED TEAM!!!

Peter
 
Peter Majtan said:
Scarlet does not have ASICS rejected from Epic. Scarlet has the first generation ASIC that was meant for Epic v.1 - but after the addition of HDRx and many other things the v.1 ASIC was no longer sufficient for Epic. Therefore v.2 ASIC was designed and developed for the current Epic, but since so much effort and funding went into the v.1 ASIC - it was decided to use it for Scarlet - with its given limitations... Reject is something different entirely. It would instigate that the current v.2 ASIC are made and some don't meet the specs for current Epic and are therefore rejected and "thrown" into Scarlet. Which is clearly not the case...

So NO - Scarlets don't use "rejects" ASICS - they use the 1st gen ASICs that are perfectly operational to their original designs and specs...

And a nit - if you are going to quote me, don't toss in a word with quotations (i.e. "rejected and 'thrown' into...") when I never said that. It implies a carelessness to the process that I never attributed.


Peter
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Peter - sorry but, unless you have been hanging around inside of RED with people who know something the rest of us don't, I am not at all sure where you got this information. How about citing some sort of source. I have probably read every post in this forum by RED for the last 3 years and, I'll admit, I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. AFAIK, there was never amy public discussion about a v.1 ASIC vs. a v.2 ASIC.

For now, I'll stand by my statements - especially the contention that the Scarlet is NOT purposefully, methodically crippled in order to keep its performance below that of Epic. That said, even if you are correct, it doesn't change this part; i.e. the Scarlet ASIC is not just a crippled Epic ASIC.
 
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If you configure a PC and you decide on the CPU you want to afford – do you regard the cheaper, slower models as 'rejects' ?

Scarlet is a computer with one light sensitive chip among many others and a lens in front!
 
Here is a quote from RED in the Scarlet announcement thread. I draw your attention to the last paragraph.

Jarred Land said:
5K is 60% more pixels than 4K. Shooting motion at 5K makes a difference. And that 60% more takes a lot more horsepower. So is framerates Important to some people.. which again takes more horsepower.. and so does compression.

We didn't invent the big brother/ little brother concept.. it has existed since the beginning of time.

What makes a $100 Pentium 2.8ghz CPU different then a $1000 Pentium 3.2ghz CPU.? they usually come out of the same oven...

When chips and sensors go through testing, some can perform faster than others and handle more speed/data than others. It's called yield, and it is not artificial. You get parts that can handle the speed, some that cannot. Instead of throwing all those ones that can't keep up, you run them slower and give them a new life. Pretty simple stuff.
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Peter Majtan said:
Clearly you Terry don't know your fact or history either...

Scarlet does not have ASICS rejected from Epic. Scarlet has the first generation ASIC that was meant for Epic v.1 - but after the addition of HDRx and many other things the v.1 ASIC was no longer sufficient for Epic. Therefore v.2 ASIC was designed and developed for the current Epic, but since so much effort and funding went into the v.1 ASIC - it was decided to use it for Scarlet - with its given limitations... Reject is something different entirely. It would instigate that the current v.2 ASIC are made and some don't meet the specs for current Epic and are therefore rejected and "thrown" into Scarlet. Which is clearly not the case...

So NO - Scarlets don't use "rejects" ASICS - they use the 1st gen ASICs that are perfectly operational to their original designs and specs...

Also - its funny how every time there is even a hint of "higher frame rates for Scarlet" - bunch of mostly the same guys flock in and start the "get an Epic" mantra, rants and insults. Completely ignoring that what we were hoping for were Wide-Screen ratio modes - which do allow for higher frame rates as when compared to their full-height equivalent (i.e. 5K-WS vs 5K-FF) without asking for the camera to do "more"...

I am an optimist and know that the WS modes will come to Scarlet one day - hopefully sooner then later...

And yes - 100% agreed - the new build is amazing! No doubt... Rock on RED TEAM!!!

Peter
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Terry VerHaar said:
Peter - sorry but, unless you have been hanging around inside of RED with people who know something the rest of us don't, I am not at all sure where you got this information. How about citing some sort of source. I have probably read every post in this forum by RED for the last 3 years and, I'll admit, I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. AFAIK, there was never amy public discussion about a v.1 ASIC vs. a v.2 ASIC.

For now, I'll stand by my statements - especially the contention that the Scarlet is NOT purposefully, methodically crippled in order to keep its performance below that of Epic. That said, even if you are correct, it doesn't change this part; i.e. the Scarlet ASIC is not just a crippled Epic ASIC.
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Have to agree with Terry...

In this thread: Thread: SCARLET ANNOUNCEMENT....


Jannard says in post #13


How can you offer Scarlet-X at this price when EPIC is so much more?
Data rates and processing power. ASICs that weren't fast enough for EPIC… just became a gold mine for Scarlet.This, and board component reduction, allows us to lower the data rate throughput and significantly reduce our costs over volume.

Why can't I shoot 24fps 4K HDRx?
Data rates and processing power. *We are working on a future version of HDRx with modified compression to enable this possibility. It will be a firmware upgrade and free.

Can Scarlet-X be upgraded to the new Dragon sensor when it is released?
Yes. However the upgrade will be more expensive than upgrading an EPIC due to the necessity to change several primary boards. There will still be data rate limitations to Scarlet after the upgrade as compared with EPIC.


If you look into how ASICs and other processor chops are made - a huge % don't live up to the design specs - but still work at 70-90% of design spec and "Throttled" and then sold at a cheaper price asa 'slower' chip for uses that are less intensive.
 
Peter Majtan said:
Clearly you Terry don't know your fact or history either...

Scarlet does not have ASICS rejected from Epic.
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Where did you hear about "first generation" ASICs for Epic being used for Scarlet?

From launch day:

Jannard said:
How can you offer Scarlet-X at this price when EPIC is so much more?Data rates and processing power. ASICs that weren't fast enough for EPIC… just became a gold mine for Scarlet.This, and board component reduction, allows us to lower the data rate throughput and significantly reduce our costs over volume.
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I've seen it said many times here that these were ASICs not good enough/rejected for EPIC use. This is the first I've heard that they were 1st gen. What's your source?
 
Glen and Brandon - thanks for the backup research. Always good to know that I am not delusional. :smiley:
 
Sorry, I was under the impression that Scarlet (one-day; soon) would do 5K 24fps - either in WS or 16x9.

No offense...5K 12fps is useless. Shouldn't be mentioned as 5K camera then. Epic owner(s) REALLY need to get over this point (if they are) of battling between Epic & Scarlet debate. Not sure how many Epic owners really care or would be pissed if Scarlet was offered this upgrade frame rate. Epic is essentially better.

Hoping future firmwares will enable this feature regardless of all these 1st or 2nd generation of ASIC boards. If the R1 can do it, I would hope the Scarlet would to being a new 2011/12 camera not a 2007/08 camera.
 
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Uli Plank said:
Tell this to a photographer…
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Lets face it, all serious photographers use DSLR for stills and timelapse. Even most not so serious photographers here seem to have DSLR for still work. DSLR's are way better for still photography.

Stills with EPIC is as gimmick as video with DSLR's.
 
Having a 5K WS option on the Scarlet or a 4.5k option would be great, and should be possible theoretically, if you look at recorded pixels versus normal 4K modus on Scarlet, but I don't design camera's so I don't know shit (that's not sarcastic, I mean it).

And I still think it's a bit possible to defend that a RED One that was 4000 dollars (agreed, in a *big* price reduction after it costed 25.000), that has older technology, only as 12bit RAW recording versus Scarlet's 16, etc..., can have a 4.5K mode.
Oh well. I think the people wanting more are right in a way, when comparing the amount of pixels and price, and age of technology. But I also think people at the other side are right too (if RED says it's technically impossible, I believe them. Even if it's more to protect Epic market, then it's understandable, considering their track record - could you ever see Sony giving you a 17.500 dollar credit towards a new model?) and definately: Scarlet is still a pretty amazing deal for the price (it does get hot in the competition though) and we all knew the specs when we bought it.
 
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