Bad anodizing job on some parts of RED hardware

[Charles Perkins]

Yes ET does make all the parts needed and even a few more.

no they don't.

for example:
having rods on the top of the camera is very useful, and for people in a part of the world where 15mm rods are the standard, then their top mount is great, but if your use to 19mm then its not so great.

don't get me wrong, ET make some great stuff and I'll be ordering some stuff from them soon, but they do not cover all of the options.

 

[Dominique Grenier]

If you like the red stuff buy it as the cheaper option.

Well, ET's prices aren't that much different from RED actually. Their Top Mounts and Cheese Plate is even cheaper (when you take the combo, at least)... The other stuff is kind of hard to compare...

 

[Finner]

no they don't.

don't get me wrong, ET make some great stuff and I'll be ordering some stuff from them soon, but they do not cover all of the options.

Ah, yes they do! I have seen and spoke to Stephen about products very few know about yet and will blow people away. Also what they do not make in bulk you can speak to them about getting made custom

Well, ET's prices aren't that much different from RED actually. Their Top Mounts and Cheese Plate is even cheaper (when you take the combo, at least)... The other stuff is kind of hard to compare...

This is exactly why I have been pumping up ET for quite a while. After I went through a bunch of ET products at LART with Stephen I was converted and wanted everything ET has to offer. My camera will be all ET and veiw factor accessories. The ET accessories in the end are only very marginally more money and well worth it IMO.

 

[R Fogg]

Ah, yes they do! I have seen and spoke to Stephen about products very few know about yet and will blow people away. Also what they do not make in bulk you can custom order.

I guess the point is that ET doesn't yet offer alternatives for the masses. At least not in the pdf they sent me. I am sure it is coming but I know for many of us it will be Red parts now and an upgrade to ET later when a comprehensive collection of ET parts is available.

 

[Finner]

Ya Rfo it does suck to get caught in that catch 22.

 

[Charles Perkins]

Ah, yes they do! I have seen and spoke to Stephen about products very few know about yet and will blow people away. Also what they do not make in bulk you can speak to them about getting made custom

thats cool, but how am i meant to know about this stuff? I sent them an email asking for a list of parts and prices, and I got a pdf back, I assumed that that was what they made, and nothing else that they might be making was available for sale.

 

[Finner]

They are so busy right now that custom items would be pushed way, way back.

I understand how top rods are handy but not a shooting necessity so I would recomend waiting or getting a machinist to custom build some stuff for you. There are still a lot of top plate ET options even if you can't get a 19mm rod top yet.

With the large amount of options ET already offers I was just a little confused as to why you would suggest that my posting of ET having some solutions does not make sense. ET offers many solutions for the very issues brought up here.

 

[Matthew Rogers]

The complaining by people here about this is very funny to me. It is like a person buying a Hyundai and being pissed because it does not have the quality of a mercedes. Kind of silly.

I think the issue is more so the fact that SOME parts are anodized one way, and the other parts are anodized another way (plus, some of the same parts anodized 2 different ways!) I don't see why all the parts shouldn't have the same finish....

Matthew

 

[John DeBoer]

Sim Video's Accessories

Sim Video's Accessories

Hi Guys:

With all this talk of accessories, what do people think of the following set up we have developed at SIM VIDEO?

1) Handle/VF support/Battery Plate: This system includes everything you need for your RED upper support. Using lightweight, but extremely durable aircraft aluminum, the handle is extremely versatile with multiple 3/8th and 1/4 threaded holes. On the viewfinder mount, there are multiple adjustments available, with positive locking features, and it comes with a 4" and an 8" extension rods that works with the standard ARRI style EL3 eyepiece leveler. The battery is mounted on a moveable system that allows with one lever to adjust the battery anywhere from flat across the top of the camera, to straight down the back of the body, and any where in between. Battery holder is set up for mounting RED, Anton Bauer and IDX battery plates.

2) Toe Piece: The toe piece works with all ARRI dovetails, and has 15mm rods with Studio and Lightweight rod spacings. Positive lock system holds camera securely on the dovetail.

3) Downconverter/Breakout Box: Converts one HDSDI to VBS (standard definition) as well as giving you access to USB, and all DIN connectors on the RED. Power comes via the 12v connector on the rear of the RED.

Anytime we have shown any of this at our shops, we get bombarded with requests.

What does everyone think?


John DeBoer
Director of Eastern Operations,
Sim Video Group of Companies
(Los Angeles, San Francisco, Vancouver, Toronto, Halifax, Beijing)


WWW.SIMVIDEO.COM

 

[Harry Clark]

Nice stuff John!
EVF solution looks good. Top handle should be popular with Steadicam guys for low-mode.
Cheers,
Harry

 

[Andrew M.]

I have lots o ET stuff and they have done a great job. Stephen is a great guy. I plan to buy more. Although there are some things ET hasn't made or not yet at least.

I also don't think it is fair to say we are expecting Mercedes quality at Hyundai prices. It's just inconsistent. Some of the same parts are done better and worse.

The complaining by people here about this is very funny to me. It is like a person buying a Hyundai and being pissed because it does not have the quality of a mercedes. Kind of silly.

ET makes "arri" quality accessories at a fraction of arri prices for those that want that level of quality. For those that don't red has some good accessories but thinking the $1,200 production pack should be top grade "arri" cine quality is madness.

Wait a minute, side handles are not included in the production pack.
If I see on the web machined for $200 then it is fair price and I pay for it.
But when instead what arrives is a cast, then give me a break.
Cast (I hope it is not cast but pressed) will break at the tips very very easy.
I hope you will not mount camera by side handles on the aerial shoots or crane.
It may fall off.
Again even if it is pressed from one piece of metal and I see machined then on the web should show what they sell.

This is what this forum is for, to improve the product and pick on problems and relay it to the RED QC guys, among the other useful things the forums are for.

 

[CVB]

So if it is cast why bracket cost $200? should be $25

http://www.red.com/store/product_detail/56

Let me give you guys the run down on how manufacturing parts work... typically die cast tooling takes anywhere from 2-3 months to complete. If Jim were to wait for the tooling you wouldn't have received first cameras until November of last year instead of August. Its common practice to CNC parts until tooling comes online then swap over. While it is true that a $600 part may have cost $100 to machine and that a die cast part probably runs about $6 you forgot about the investment in tooling that needs to be included. Some of those parts aren't exactly easy on the tooling budget. I'd guess that the bottom plate tooling probably ran about $120K... divide that into the number of units hes initially shipping and I'd be surprised if he's getting them much cheaper than machining them. The biggest thing tooling affords you is the opportunity for cost reduction over a long period with high volumes.

The other issue with the die cast... finish. The material used for diecasting aluminum isn't really 100% aluminum. Its typically a casting alloy that is better suited to die cast and it releases easier from the molds etc. It will never look like anodized aluminum. So the options are limited... either take the finish as it is or complain until Jim has to bite the bullet and powder coat everything. I personally like the finish, it kinda reminds me of a gun finish of some sort.

 

[Steve Freebairn]

I hope that Red gets this worked out. Finner, can you post pictures, prices and cost of these items you speak of? Your video was way helpful. I'd rather pay a few bucks more up front and not have crappy items. Does ET take credit cards?

 

[Anders Holck]

Top handle should be popular with Steadicam guys for

I think any steadicam operator would trade any handle for the ET top cheeseplate anytime:

 

[John DeBoer]

Except for the extra weight......I have 3 steadicam operators in my shop right now drooling over the handle.........

It is the same handle system we have used on all our HD cameras...and never had one fail.

 

[Anders Holck]

It does look cool though, and seems practical Nice work!
I just hate handle clamps for low mode....

Note that you dont need the top 19mm rods but only the cheeseplate and the topmounts.

Nice detail with the downconverter, although covering the HDMI seems like a bad idea.

But VERY Nice finish

 

[Casey Green]

We have also noticed the difference in finish between various accessories.

And here is another thread about what we feel is sub-par quality on some RED Accessories. This one mostly has to do with the DoveTail / Bottom Plate not fitting together snuggly (especially when weight is factored in) as well as the need for re-enforcements on the bottom plate.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8889&highlight=plate

There has not been any response from RED on that thread either.

While we understand that the RED parts are offered as a cost effective solution, there are some things that need to be made right here. Products should be made professionally, and also ship as advertised. We feel the RED Bottom Plate and Dovetail fell short of REDs standards and hope that we see them address the well documented problem to their customers.

While ET parts look to be outstanding and offer a great alternative, this does not mean that RED should ignore this issue. Keep in mind that many people purchased the RED Basic Production Pack because of the great deal it was no buying each piece separately. We would have rethought that decision had we known about these issues before hand.

Take a look at the other thread to get the specifics of the Bottom Plate / DoveTail problem.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8889&highlight=plate

 

[Anders Holck]

Sorry, I re-read your post in the SIM thread. no prob.
Are you going to offer this for sale or only as retal with your cameras?

 

[Andrew M.]

The other issue with the die cast... finish. The material used for diecasting aluminum isn't really 100% aluminum. Its typically a casting alloy that is better suited to die cast and it releases easier from the molds etc. It will never look like anodized aluminum. So the options are limited... either take the finish as it is or complain until Jim has to bite the bullet and powder coat everything. I personally like the finish, it kinda reminds me of a gun finish of some sort.

Curt, the bottom tip of the handle is very thin (not the one that screws on), if it is really aluminum die cast then we are asking for trouble here, like with the carbon rods. I hope that Jarred banged on it really hard. Looks like each time there is a change of technology even slightest one all have to be retested.
The best is to screw it tight to the 18 rod and drop it few times from 10 feet on the concrete floor.
Tighter it is screwed to the rod higher the chances that it will break.

 

[John DeBoer]

Sorry, I re-read your post in the SIM thread. no prob.
Are you going to offer this for sale or only as retal with your cameras?

The original idea was to only offer it with our Rentals, but we have had so many requests that we are testing the waters to sell them. Prices will be out early next week.