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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

BACKPACK system

I couldn't agree more! The center of gravity of any shoulder mount rig should be directly above your SHOULDER. Then it's actually your skeleton which is supporting most of the weight and not your muscles. When you have to use your arm, back, and shoulder muscles to support the weight of a camera, then it won't take long before you'll experience painful muscle fatigue and open yourself up to serious back problems (and this goes for both light and heavy camera rigs). When you have a properly balanced camera, then you'll only need to use your arm muscles to keep the rig from tipping (which should take minimal effort).

Ergonomics is something the RED has never really understood. I remember watching their presentation at their first NAB, and they showed a drawing for a shoulder-mount prototype called the RED GUN. It involved holding the entire camera rig out in front of your body (just like you would hold a rifle), and my very first thought was that it would kill your back very quickly. Thankfully, they abandoned that concept, but here we are 6 years later and they're still making the same mistakes. However, we are very fortunate that there are plenty of good third-party solutions (i.e. Zacuto), which have well-designed systems with a clear understanding of ergonomic principals.

-Paul

Charles Angus said:
I can't imagine this balancing at all with anything more than a light prime on this shoulder mount. Actually, I can't imagine that, either.

A shoulder mount rig should stay on your shoulder if you take your hands off of it. This would fall on the floor instantly. All of the weight is either in front of or above the shoulder...

This is probably the only area I see where RED really hasn't quite "got it", and is blown away by cameras like the Varicam and the F900 (not to mention XTR-Prod, etc.). Even the SR3 is not bad.

Yes, yes, modular, etc. But what about "it just works"? I can slap a lens and a battery on a Varicam and be shooting handheld in 90 seconds. No Allen keys. No fiddling. And it's darn comfy.

I honestly don't understand why people are gushing about this...
Click to expand...
 
A betacam, then F900, balances well, and is stable as can be. Shot lots with those. Then the little cameras came out and we had to learn to shoot with the weight forward. Definitely not as stable, but it made a few more types of shots possible. Red has created an ergonomic challenge with the smaller cameras and all the weight forward, no cut out for mag or battery to balance.

But now Red has one of the best solutions I have tried. The Clutch is very well designed. The rear pad transfers the weight without having to load up the back too much. I haven't loaded it up yet, but reviews here are great.
 
We make a shoulder rig guys.. it is called the Clutch. Don't get the two options confused.

And don't compare an Epic with a Varicam, that is not really applicable.. That is like comparing apples to hot dogs.
 
Jarred Land said:
We make a shoulder rig guys.. it is called the Clutch. Don't get the two options confused.

And don't compare an Epic with a Varicam, that is not really applicable.. That is like comparing apples to hot dogs.
Click to expand...

Jarred,

Do you know when the Clutch's components will be available in the store ?

I just bought RED QR entire system...

Dont want to waste these parts if i buy the clutch

Might be fun to built a "custom clutch" :)

Antoine
 
http://www.red.com/store/rail-components/product/clutch-shoulder-rig

clutch-with-top-handle.png
 
Michael Mayda said:
Apples are RED, hot dogs are brown...
Click to expand...

Apples are ancient. They've been around forever. They're also the most commonly grown fruit there is. Hot dogs came about in the late 19th century and originated out of Germany(ARRI???SANJIN??). They're also more complex since a hot dog does not occur in nature and requires several million steps in order to become a hotdog. I would say Red is neither. Red's more of an espresso shot of future dust, a little bit of brain fuck and some old fashioned Vitamin C.
 
ENG shell

ENG shell

Full props to RED for creating a camera that is so small and powerful it begs to be used for every type of shooting scenario north of GoPro land.

Personally, I love the fact that I can re-configure the EPIC so many different ways depending on the situation. The flip side is that without the right aks and knowledge that can prove daunting. Moreover, getting the right balance and ergonomics requires more add on parts than a camera like the Varicam.

It would be interesting to create a "drop in chassis" for the EPIC that would incorporate all the usual ENG operational bits in a familiar profile. I am imagining a shell with an integrated shoulder pad, v-mount battery plate on the back, XLR taps with physical knobs for gain (you'd still have to trim in the menu if the level was more than 15db different than nominal), EVF mount, small shotgun mic, etc. For some folks this ENG shell build would be the "normal" set up and they could just leave it that way until a situation came up that necessitated breaking it down.

I would also want a case that made it simple to travel with the camera fully built and ready to shoot like the Porta-Brace cases I used for years with Broadcast cams.

If anyone reading this is interested in the concept, I would love to help design such a beast. It just might prove popular for general rental house use.

Cheers - #!9
 
Blair,

As you know, I've been devising, using, and suggesting mobile hybrid/EFP solutions for Red cameras for a long time now - since mid 2005. FWIW I definitely concur with the need for what you described, and the huge usage and sales potential for such. But then again, me and you have almost always been on the same production gear and accessory frequency when it comes to Red cameras :)

With Epic and Scarlet being DSMC camera systems, designed to be used and modularly adapted quickly for cine, EFP, and stills use, it follows that there is and will continue to be a solid demand for accessories which enhance and enable the camera's usage in each of those industries. Red has a lot on their plate, so they may not be the ones to make a lot of those accessories - but other companies will surely make them quickly - because there is and will continue to be a big demand for them. If "horses for courses" is the mantra, and these DSMC cameras are indeed designed by Red for use in a wide diversity of "courses", then a commensurate array of accessories which help various shooting style users to maximize the potential of the cameras is absolutely needed.

Whoever designs the accessories you described for Epic/Scarlet would definitely be wise to consult with longtime EFP/ENG professionals like you, me, and many other EFP/ENG veterans during their design process. Just sayin...

Good post Braddah Blair...and thanks for thinkin' out loud on this :thumbup1:
 
Yeah, that's more like it.

About what Blair was saying about a drop in shoulder case, I agree. Saw somebody at s press conference recently with a prosumer camera in a rail rig balancing uncomfortably on his shoulder and it just looked wrong despite how 'awesome' the rig was.
 
Antoine Fabi said:
Maybe it's me...but i don't find the shoulder pad and the auxiliary support pads...

Antoine
Click to expand...


OK...you put it on the store just after my post :)

Now everything seems available :)

I thought i was looking at the wrong place...

Good

Antoine
 
No question that Handy Looky ergonomics is the way to go for hand held docs, but we are stymied by lack of a pl mount compact zoom with inbuilt or bolt on servo with hand grip.

Mike Brennan
 
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