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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Avid native R3D support...

Rainer Fritz said:
Michael can you please say a word about the tearing problem when working specially in fullscreen playback mode only via graphics card. For me which is only working filebased is a mojo dx not really a must.... would be great if this is resolved in MC5 as well....
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The MXO2 Mini is supported in v5 so that file based workflows can work with HDMI or analog component monitoring without the tearing seen on full screen play.

Michael
 
Notis Benos said:
Here 's a podcast at Avid Events Rewind, at 15:00 you can see how MC 5 handles Red footage. There 's also FLUT™™™™.
:thumbsup:

And another video from youtube, at 1:33.
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In neither of those demos do they actually show full-framerate playback of R3D's. In the one shot in the first demo where he does hit "play", the shot being played back has no motion in it - it's a static shot of a building! So how can you tell if or how well it plays back?
 
M Most said:
People with the talent to do all of those considerably different things well.
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While I strongly agree with this sentiment the more things you can do well yourself the better people you can hire.

If you are working on an independent project and can only afford 30 hours of work I would rather do the things I can do pretty good and then save my finite resources for those who can do an exceptional job.

I've seen what happens when there isn't enough time in the budget for more than a quick pass by a colorist, often my internal pass, while probably taking twice as long looks comparable or a little better. If I'm going to pay a professional I want to have the resources for them to do it right, otherwise I'm just paying them for speed.

The more you can do yourself, the more you have in your budget to pay for the really hard stuff. I've also found that on both sides of the session it's always useful to have examples. The more reference a client can give the quicker I can give them what they're looking for. The more accurate of a roughcut I can hand off the less back and forth there is to get what I'm looking for. It creates a good starting point for the discussion instead of starting from scratch. You might be starting from scratch but at least you can provide a direction you want to take it. Sometimes you just have to explore a bit to figure that out yourself. But it's easy to burn a lot of $$$ 'exploring' options.
 
joe hedge said:
In neither of those demos do they actually show full-framerate playback of R3D's. In the one shot in the first demo where he does hit "play", the shot being played back has no motion in it - it's a static shot of a building! So how can you tell if or how well it plays back?
Click to expand...

Yeah...be careful here guys...

My personal Avid (Media Composer 4) system works really well with the P2 mxf material I shoot. Usually its 720 @25P using the AVCi 50 Codec. I can even edit straight off the P2 card if I want.

I built the 2.4Ghz Quad core system myself and so its isnt the official Avid approved platform, but as I say, all works really well - even when editing from and external firewire drive that is far slower then my inbuilt 200Mbps striped pairs . I was therefore very surprised when the same workflow didnt work at a facility with Avid approved HP dual core 3.4Ghz kit running the same software - it just jittered and choked. I even bought my firewire drive in to try - in case it was some ISIS (server) issue. It wasnt - it just wasnt workable. I dont know why it doesnt work but can only guess its down to my Vista 64 v their Win XP or maybe a RAM issue (mine is 8Gb, theirs less than half).

So, they have to transcode the AVCi 50 to DNX 120, which is a bit bonkers really to make it all work. That is NOT the point of filebased for me.

SO - hang on and check!!!

Meanhwile Go Avid! Nice to see them trailblaizing - its by far my preferred editing product for workflow and anything complex/layered (and I do use fruit products too ;) )

D
 
Fantastic news for all of us Avid/Red users.
Here's hoping we can get yellow/green mode realtime playback working with a Matrox mini for tear free 1080p monitoring. It would save me all the hassles of offline/online conforming complex sequences.
Roll on 10 June!
 
So...I can now view/edit the .r3d files in realtime using AMA. Of course, I would copy the .r3d files to a separate drive to backup and load them using AMA. When I start editing, is it destructive to those files? When do I transcode? Do I edit first, and then transcode my edited show? If I shoot in 2k or 3k but need to deliver in 1080p QT, what is my workflow? Just edit using AMA and then export? I assume the long transcode happens then...this is where the RedRocket comes into play?
 
Hi Brian, I'm not talking from Avid but whenever you edit in a non-linear system you are never writing over your source material with whatever you cut, so it is always non-destructive. I personally would want to 'consolidate' my media at some point after linking using AMA so that the data is being stored in Avid's library rather than in a location of your choosing which might end up moving by accident.

In my experience of AMA in Media Composer 3 you never need to transcode while editing, so I assume this would be the same in MC 5 and that includes with Red footage. As I said before you might want to consolidate your media, but that just means MC creating an exact copy in your Avid library and takes only as long as your drives do moving the data.

Your workflow would depend on your equipment, budget and requirements. Which means you could edit, colour correct and create titles and effects then transcode from MC. Or perhaps edit then export an xml for taking with your media to an Avid DS suit (or other compositor/finisher) where you can do more advanced colour correction and compositing, then transcode to 1080p QT. If you had the right bits you could also output to a deck if the show wants the media on a Sony Professional Disk for instance.
 
brian hanson said:
same here but it's awesome to hear that red is pullin out all the stops.
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I don't think it's RED that's pulling out all the stops on this one. I've been on Avid for 16 years and the entire time it's been a closed system... ie no 3rd party hardware. The fact that Avid will talk to RR is nothing short of a miracle from Avid. Combined with the ability to link Final Cut QT files via AMA it signals that Avid is finally opening up. If this is indicative of a new philosophy from Avid then the future is very exciting indeed for those of us sitting in dark rooms all day.
 
The things Avid are doing just amaze me right now. And you can especially see this in MC. I love the little pro tools like quick tool they have announced. That will be very cool. And I love the way Avid is giving you fast open access with the security that comes with it's data management systems. The thing about Avid is that because they are the big boys in editing they actually know about workflow and about how editors actually work, and crazily enough they are applying this knowledge to making the editor's editor even better. So if you work at a TV news station or edited Iron Man II or edit your own self shot docs, or whatever, your NLE never gets in the way of your creativity. Sometimes editing I felt like I was walking through molasses trying to get where I want to go but with Avid it's like my creativity is a knife through the butter of the media. Everything is fast, it doesn't hold you back in the slightest and just gives you all the right options for making the right creative decisions. And that's through fantastic workflow and making things work the right way above all else. Avid you rock! Thank you
 
Kris Anderson said:
I don't think it's RED that's pulling out all the stops on this one. I've been on Avid for 16 years and the entire time it's been a closed system...
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It takes two to tangle. Avid has been in talks with RED when we visited them back in the Oakley offices. Things take time. MXF is an open standard, DNxHD is an open standard all defined in SMPTE. AAF is an open standard. There are many different definitions of "open" that can be looked at. A large part of our customer base requires that all of this be open for archive purposes and don't want a wrapper or essence that is not an open standard.

Michael
 
I think the only "closed" aspect of AVID over the years has been the Hardware restrictions. Which, up until FCP showed up, was the same for most high-end/post systems.
Let's see how it all works out but AVID looks to be on top right now with the new V5 announcements.
 
MichaelP said:
It takes two to tangle. Avid has been in talks with RED when we visited them back in the Oakley offices. Things take time. MXF is an open standard, DNxHD is an open standard all defined in SMPTE. AAF is an open standard. There are many different definitions of "open" that can be looked at. A large part of our customer base requires that all of this be open for archive purposes and don't want a wrapper or essence that is not an open standard.

Michael
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To be fair, Kris did specify that his definition of closed meant "no 3rd party hardware" which has been true up until this RR support. I think this is a fair criticism and the biggest barrier to entry for a lot of professional editors. I had to build a system for a couple of indie features I did and I certainly couldn't justify spending $15k for a Nitris DX box. Especially when I could get a Kona 3 Card and breakout box for around $4,500.

I think Avid could woo a lot more editors to use it's products (hardware people) if it made them more affordable, or began to "open" the system to 3rd party development (specifically speaking of the hardware I/O platforms here). I'm sure the Nitris DX is a highly sophisticated piece of engineering but is it really so much more advanced than the MultiBridge Eclipse to command a seven-fold price premium? Or three-times more engineering than a Kona 3?

(full-disclosure: I did buy a Multibridge three years ago and ultimately returned it for the Kona 3 because it was more stable, as I'm sure the Nitris is... though seven-times more stable?)

On another note: I think it's "tango" Michael. Sorry, pet peeve. I love idioms and etymology.
 
Todd's totally right. If Avid would return the phone calls from AJA and Blackmagic I think they would wipe the floor with FCP from the top end on down to the prosumer. That's a lot of sales.

He's also right about the tango thing:-)
 
Avid has absolutely no debt and while it has been operating at a small loss on a GAP basis, from a cash flow point of view, it's been essentially breaking even recently. That's w/o the release of MC5.
 
Todd M. said:
... I had to build a system for a couple of indie features I did and I certainly couldn't justify spending $15k for a Nitris DX box. Especially when I could get a Kona 3 Card and breakout box for around $4,500.

I think Avid could woo a lot more editors to use it's products (hardware people) if it made them more affordable, or began to "open" the system to 3rd party development (specifically speaking of the hardware I/O platforms here). I'm sure the Nitris DX is a highly sophisticated piece of engineering but is it really so much more advanced than the MultiBridge Eclipse to command a seven-fold price premium? Or three-times more engineering than a Kona 3?

(full-disclosure: I did buy a Multibridge three years ago and ultimately returned it for the Kona 3 because it was more stable, as I'm sure the Nitris is... though seven-times more stable?)

...
Click to expand...

Todd are you sure you even needed a Nitris DX box to edit a few indies? Would a Mojo DX have been enough? And now you can use a Matrox mini for HD monitoring. Also, Full Screen Playback, which is free, does a decent job if you have good LCD monitor and can calibrate it. You can even set FSP to truncate the luminance to simulate broadcast studio swing levels.

I realize the Matrox compatibility wasn't available when you were specing out a system, but with it and AMA perhaps Avid has a reasonably priced system that would fit the bill.

As for the is it seven times better or three times better ?, that's kind of not fair. It's a law of diminishing returns when you move to higher end equipment. It's like the difference between consumer and enterprise harddrives, or Speedgrade versus BaseLight. The price doesn't seem justified, unless failure or less than blazing performance is just not a option. For some people a Nitris DX box is justified and it will pay for itself, for others it's way over priced. (I personally think Avid should open up their hardware so it can work with other NLE's and sell it cheaper. I think people would pay some kind of a premium for Avid over BlackMagic, Matrox, etc. but Avid seems to not want to go in that direction.)

But I'm sure the evaluation you used for Avid in the past will hold true starting June 5th when MC5 is released.
 
Peter Moretti said:
Avid has absolutely no debt and while it has been operating at a small loss on a GAP basis, from a cash flow point of view, it's been essentially breaking even recently. That's w/o the release of MC5.
Click to expand...

Peter, this is not really the whole story.

Avid's financials for the past several years...
http://ir.avid.com/results.cfm

There are a lot of ways to read numbers. But here is a very basic snapshot over the past several quarters in terms of GAAP net loss and cash balance. All numbers are in US millions.

Q3 08 - (66.3) - 178.5
Q4 08 - (31.9) - 147.7
Q1 09 - (21.1) - 131.6
Q2 09 - (15.9) - 118.6
Q3 09 - (16.2) - 103.0
Q4 09 - (17.9) - 109.0
Q1 10 - (17.3) - 74.0

Now... to be clear... at this past NAB, I saw a new Avid. I saw a company that I had started to write off emerge from the ashes and start fresh. There was a positive spirit, there was a tight message, and most importantly (for me) there was the lifeblood of any tech company - innovation. For the first time in awhile, I am rooting for Avid. The company I saw last year at NAB, I thought should probably go away. The company I saw this year, I'm rooting for and want them to go kick some ass.

But the numbers do not lie. Avid is far from being in a dire position as a company. Their current Quick Ratio is still above 1.0 (barely) and they have cash So... they can borrow and they can spend. : )

Do you have to "worry" about Avid's financial strength? Not yet. But these numbers must start to turn around in the next year or things will start getting dicey.

Best,

Lucas


Lucas Wilson
------------
Director, Business Development
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA
 
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