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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Avid CEO Weighs in on Rival Apple's New Editing Software

Gary is delusional. No 4:4:4 DNxHD, no 2K or 4K or DPX in MC or Symphony. No LUTS or clip based CC for Arri Alexa or Sony S-Log.

When Arri's cameras don't record to your format and your flagship product can't handle full resolution Red files, it's hard to claim that you're on the cutting edge of pro workflows. I agree, for P2 and XDCAM, Avid is tops.
 
fcp_share.jpg


FCP has had over 50% of the market for years, but even as an FCP fan, I'd always assumed it was mostly on the backs of the wedding videographers, etc. and that FCP and Avid were much better matched when you were talking about broadcast and post facilities.

Apparently not so much these days.

I'm not just posting this to troll the Avid fans. My point here is more that vague speculation -- by Avid's CEO or anyone -- that FCP X is anything less than a professional product doesn't make a lot of sense in light of the above. There's no way Apple opened the event bragging about FCP adoption for broadcast and feature film work, but is actually planning to walk away from those markets. Apple isn't the most open company in the world, and you sort of need to read the tea leaves a bit. If FCP X were a prosumer product, it wouldn't have been introduced in that venue, Apple wouldn't have started giving "sneak peeks" to select industry types a couple of months ago, Apple wouldn't have actual post facilities beta testing, and the language used to talk about the product would have been very different.
 
Read these graphs carefully. Look at the title - 'New B'Cast & Post NLE Purchases' - not market share. You can make a graph look any way you want. I have no idea of the market share and actually don't care. And what's the fine print in the lower corner?
 
Peter Plevritis said:
Read these graphs carefully. Look at the title - 'New B'Cast & Post NLE Purchases' - not market share. You can make a graph look any way you want. I have no idea of the market share and actually don't care.
Click to expand...

I think you're missing the point of my post. It wasn't "Haha, more people use Final Cut". It was "Apple isn't going to walk away from pro markets because (among other reasons) they're doing very well there." Percentage of new sales demonstrates that better than percentage of installed base, if anything.

Peter Plevritis said:
And what's the fine print in the lower corner?
Click to expand...

Just the sourcing info. You can almost make it out in this photo.
 
Chris Kenny said:
I think you're missing the point of my post. It wasn't "Haha, more people use Final Cut". It was "Apple isn't going to walk away from pro markets because (among other reasons) they're doing very well there." Percentage of new sales demonstrates that better than percentage of installed base, if anything.
Click to expand...

Ok, I get what you mean. Thanks for clarifying.

And thanks for the photo.
 
I told you guys long before as probably most of us know well that APPLE RULES in the industry (like it or not)...
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
I told you guys long before as probably most of us know well that APPLE RULES in the industry (like it or not)...
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Apple certainly does not rule in the industry. We who think ourselves professionals have to make well informed or experiential decisions as to the level of efficiency in the tools we use. Apple makes great products, but so does Adobe and so does Avid. You can't buy a product solely based on its market share or because a few well know professionals use it.
 
If you are serious about editing then you need to buy Avid. I have 8 of them hooked up on an Avid Media Engine, so I can have all of my editors working on the same project at the same time. Avid media mangement has no competitor. It is rock solid and Apple can't compete in that realm even though than have XSAN.

Half of my Avids and PC's and the others are Macs they all work and work well.

And to the guy that said avid can't work with DPX, 2k, 4K or Luts then he hasn't heard about AVID DS which I also own and have owned one for 8 years and DS has always used LUTS

People need to compare AVID's and FCP correctly.

FCP is a box of software with no support.

AVID (how I buy it) is sold mainly as a turn key system with 24/7 support if you buy AVID assurance. Believe me, once in a while at 3am when your system crashes and an AVID support guy logs into your system and magically fixes it, you appreciate what AVID is.
 
You gotta love those folks who are so sure of themselves that they know THE WAY and anyone who doesn't see it is just ignorant. *sigh*
 
Ha ha...yes. I have 5 suites working Final Cut Pro via MetaSAN all hooked into 25TB of storage. Any project, any room...all good. Have never had a crash so bad that i couldn't fix it myself, so no need for Apple 24/7 support.

That said, I work daily on AVID editing reality shows for another company.

Comparing is fun, but don't get carried away with judgement. There are bazillions of success stories with FCP setups and AVID setups. Be happy with what you have, but no need to be dismissive of others.
 
This didn't seem so much a reaction to FCP X but just him talking about Avid... All he said about Final Cut seemed to be "Lots of questions about Final Cut X, but hey look at us, we're really pro"
 
Adam Eden said:
...
And to the guy that said avid can't work with DPX, 2k, 4K or Luts then he hasn't heard about AVID DS which I also own and have owned one for 8 years and DS has always used LUTS
...
Click to expand...

I absolutely know what DS is. Unfortunately not many other people do, even inside Avid it seems. So it's incredibly difficult to find an operator, and as strong as its feature set is, it's been neglected for years. Is it a DI tool (with no control surface?)? Is it a finishing tool? Most of the places I know that use DS use it for music videos, promos and commercials. Not long form finishing.

Symphony is also a finishing tool by Avid's own descriptoion. How do you have $30K finishing tool that can't do even 2K or DPX? And CC tools that haven't been updated in ten years?
 
I quibble with that market chart, as well. This was generated by a research study and is based on projected sales numbers for 2011. It also is based on OSX and not all OS types. It doesn't include Avid's consumer product (Avid Studio) which would overlap much of Final Cut's lower-end demographics and also sells a LOT of seats.

I DON'T quibble with the professionalism of FCP as an editing tool in complex environments. 80-90% of my work is with FCP in these types of facilities. I also firmly believe FCP X will show a lot more professional features than what has been revealed so far. But, the new UI will be a huge change for many, including the most ardent FCP editor. This opens a window for Adobe and Avid.

Where Gary Greenfield's interview is spot-on is in the area of professional support. I know of no facility or broadcaster that is able to get any sort of official technical support from Apple. I realize there may be some exceptions in top markets and it may happen at some level, but when you get into the small-to-medium market world - it's non-existent. Your only support from Apple is via the resellers and the quality of support varies wildly. If you have a technical problem and want to deal with Apple, your only options are the Genius Bar or to fill out the Feedback form. Apple avoids any direct involvement even in the simplest of user interactions, like the various internet forums.

- Oliver
 
Adam Eden said:
If you are serious about editing then you need to buy Avid. I have 8 of them hooked up on an Avid Media Engine, so I can have all of my editors working on the same project at the same time. Avid media mangement has no competitor. It is rock solid and Apple can't compete in that realm even though than have XSAN.

Half of my Avids and PC's and the others are Macs they all work and work well.

And to the guy that said avid can't work with DPX, 2k, 4K or Luts then he hasn't heard about AVID DS which I also own and have owned one for 8 years and DS has always used LUTS

People need to compare AVID's and FCP correctly.

FCP is a box of software with no support.

AVID (how I buy it) is sold mainly as a turn key system with 24/7 support if you buy AVID assurance. Believe me, once in a while at 3am when your system crashes and an AVID support guy logs into your system and magically fixes it, you appreciate what AVID is.
Click to expand...

Please! there are many third party solutions for collaborative workflow using multiple platforms and NLE's. I must admit I personally have not used them, but there are different solutions for different level of enterprise. There is a comfort level with using an application that works particularly well with the type of media you use.

No age discrimination intended, but NLE's have become generation defining tools.
 
Peter Moretti said:
I absolutely know what DS is. Unfortunately not many other people do, even inside Avid it seems. So it's incredibly difficult to find an operator, and as strong as its feature set is, it's been neglected for years. Is it a DI tool (with no control surface?)? Is it a finishing tool? Most of the places I know that use DS use it for music videos, promos and commercials. Not long form finishing.

Symphony is also a finishing tool by Avid's own descriptoion. How do you have $30K finishing tool that can't do even 2K or DPX? And CC tools that haven't been updated in ten years?
Click to expand...

I have been editing for over 20years now right back in the time of film editing on a steinbeck, and I have been finishing both long form and short form on a Symphony since version1 and right back to version 4 on MC (1995 perhaps). I "Finish" these days on either digital betacam for TV spots (In australia tv spots can only be delivered this way) or for long form mainly still digital betacam and also HDCAM.

Since all of the work that goes through my doors is this way, and sometimes HDCAM SR (only really for 8 track audio) I have no need for DPX or 2K. Everything is finalised at either 1080I or 1080pSF. I bet that 90% of the people on this website would be finishing at 1080 as the majority of the market make TV/ Commericals/ Corporates etc and only a few work on features.

I personally believe that the FILM industry and I highlight FILM, is for cinema projection and cinema release IE FEATURE FILMS. I work in the television industry and that my friend is 1080. ( Well at this stage)

And I love the CC tool on Symphony and I hope they NEVER change it as it is a very powerful tool especially when working at 1:1 or 4:4:4. I know avid doesnt have power windows, but I draw masks and matts and can still do everything that any client has every asked me to do.

WIth the addition of Sapphire and Tiffen DFX the Symphony is by far the fasted and best FINISHING tool for television. I am not going to argue anymore about it as I have over 12 staff that earn a way of life because of my Avid Systems. DS is a finishing tool also and also a DI tool and yes there aren't a lot of operators around because it is a little difficult to get your head around having a time line and a node base system on the one system and it has no restriction on progamme duration, you simply edit your programme on Media composer and "SEND" to DS, and the DS links to the original files and opens your timeline into its own interface.

We don't really use DS anymore and It is very hard to operate, but our RED workflow with a Red rocket card works great. But I tell you what my first AVID was MC Xpress V1.0 and that cost me about $40K US in mid 90's, I then when to Media composer V4.x on a 9500 mac and that was $90k, my first symphony was around $180K. So if a Symphony as a turn key box is $30K? Well that is bloody cheap in my opinion.

My last Z800 was about $15K on its own so Symphony with hardware is about $15K then???? Very cheap television finishing tool isn't it?
 
I don't think he was fear mongering at all. I use FCP all day at work, but we're considering a switch to AVID. I've been practicing on it for the last 2 weeks (just in case) and I look forward to the next version 6, which supposedly will be their first 64bit version (for mac, at least) and should introduce background ingest, rendering, and exporting (I hope).

AVID really needs to beef up their H264, Quicktime and various file-exporting offerings. A system similar to Adobe CS5's media encoder or Apple Compressor awould be wonderful.
 
Avid comes with a full version of Sorrenson Squeeze so all you do is export a quicktime reference and then you can encode to virtually anything.
 
Daniel Frome said:
I don't think he was fear mongering at all. I use FCP all day at work, but we're considering a switch to AVID. I've been practicing on it for the last 2 weeks (just in case) and I look forward to the next version 6, which supposedly will be their first 64bit version (for mac, at least) and should introduce background ingest, rendering, and exporting (I hope).

AVID really needs to beef up their H264, Quicktime and various file-exporting offerings. A system similar to Adobe CS5's media encoder or Apple Compressor awould be wonderful.
Click to expand...

I really don't get you guys at all. I understand its a matter of preference, you are saying you will be switching to Avid because you think in the future it will become Adobe Premiere CS5. h aha LOL. I don't get it I really don't. WitH one click of the button PPro CS5 turns into AVID with all the shortcut keys Avid editors are comfortable with. alas.....
 
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