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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Avatar Sequels no longer on Red?

Jim explained the whole system to us on the camera team today. We are under a NDA so I can't elaborate but Jim was pretty jazzed.
He isn't anti-RED but he has always had a good relationship with Sony.
 
One is reminded of the SI2K/P+S Technik camera-recorder.
 
who cares?? most of the film will be CGI anyways.... with verry little bit of practical photography... there are lots of good looking live action movies being shot on red cameras all around the world
 
Rohan B said:
who cares?? most of the film will be CGI anyways.... with very little bit of practical photography...
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That's exactly why James doesn't mind shooting with Venice. Real camera shots will be probably around 25% of the entire film, all jazzed-up with colorful CGI.
He could have chosen Red Monstro VV or Alexa LF, but Sony gave him a good deal, and he has a long history with Sony, so...
 
Eric Z said:
That's exactly why James doesn't mind shooting with Venice. Real camera shots will be probably around 25% of the entire film, all jazzed-up with colorful CGI.
He could have chosen Red Monstro VV or Alexa LF, but Sony gave him a good deal, and he has a long history with Sony, so...
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If he's capturing on a stereo 3D mirror rig again, the Sony camera head makes so much more sense. Much more similar to their f950 rig on the first movie. Arri LF/65 is a no go for such a rig and I think they liked to be able to put the camera on all kinds of rigs and on a shoulder. Having a big manufacturer willing to help on developing such a system is probably a big help for them too. Even a DSMC2 Monstro in such rig would probably be 2-3x the size and weight of the compact Venice camera heads they ended up using.
 
Rohan B said:
who cares?? most of the film will be CGI anyways.... with verry little bit of practical photography...
Click to expand...

That’s exactly why it’s worrisome for Red. Most cinema movies are shot on Alexa, Red is now specialized in shooting 3D because of its size + resolution, CGI movies and Netflix shows because of the extra resolution. The Varicam is spreading on Netflix, many shows will switch to the Alexa LF, now the Venice will take the 3D and CGI segment as it seems lighter handheld with a lot of power behind (the 2 clips look great). Dual iso is everywhere since the Varicam, resolution and size are not the trademark of Red anymore. There is still HFR for Red but people need 60/100fps max in general. I see why Red is cutting the prices. Difficult transition times.
 
Cosmo D said:
That’s exactly why it’s worrisome for Red. Most cinema movies are shot on Alexa, Red is now specialized in shooting 3D because of its size + resolution, CGI movies and Netflix shows because of the extra resolution. The Varicam is spreading on Netflix, many shows will switch to the Alexa LF, now the Venice will take the 3D and CGI segment as it seems lighter handheld with a lot of power behind (the 2 clips look great). Dual iso is everywhere since the Varicam, resolution and size are not the trademark of Red anymore. There is still HFR for Red but people need 60/100fps max in general. I see why Red is cutting the prices. Difficult transition times.
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I was very surprised that Avatar 2 and 3 went with Venice over Monstro, but the removable sensor block does make sense.
Indeed, Red seems to be losing a lot of ground lately, Helium didn't see any significant adoption for big budget feature films and Monstro hasn't really caused much interest either from what I see, with the exception of Panavision's DXL2 of course. I wouldn't be surprised if DSMC-3 drops earlier than 2020 in response to everything happening. I'd also be willing to bet that sensor tech in those new bodies will be based on Gemini's dual sensitivity pixels and will be the way to go from DSMC-3 forward.
 
Aris_Gavriilidis said:
I was very surprised that Avatar 2 and 3 went with Venice over Monstro, but the removable sensor block does make sense.
Indeed, Red seems to be losing a lot of ground lately, Helium didn't see any significant adoption for big budget feature films and Monstro hasn't really caused much interest either from what I see, with the exception of Panavision's DXL2 of course. I wouldn't be surprised if DSMC-3 drops earlier than 2020 in response to everything happening. I'd also be willing to bet that sensor tech in those new bodies will be based on Gemini's dual sensitivity pixels and will be the way to go from DSMC-3 forward.
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With 8k, rolling shutter is a bitch and 5:1 compression also doesn't help. To me the 8k pana sensor looks to be the next best thing https://news.panasonic.com/global/press/data/2018/02/en180214-2/en180214-2.html (latitude 20 stops, global shutter, electronic ND), till someone brings something even better.

RED is doing a lot right, but so do others.
 
RED is always limited due to recording media. If you look at the speed of RED Minimags compared to other modern CFAST 2.0 (especially when used in alternating frame modes such as BM) and Codex, the media is quite slow. So as they push higher and higher resolution, they're going to have to create a new minimag standard. Also RED does things to make their cameras very attractive for owner/operators but in the high end market when certain things such as file sizes aren't an issue, other cameras do look very attractive.
 
Has there ever been an Oscar nominated film shot on Red?
 
Yes, The Social Network was shot on RED and I believe it was one of the first Cinematography nominated films. RED seems to build cameras and push technology in the ways they feel are the future, and for me, other brands stick to a more underwhelming approach. But when it comes to the final images, the Alexa LF and Sony Venice are solid performers. Helium was 8K but it had increased rolling shutter and less dynamic range, so in many ways it was a step backwards in image quality. Alexa may feel old, but it's the gold standard for a reason. Turn it on, set it to 800 ISO and you get good results.

There are things RED does way better than anyone else (such as r3d recording) but I feel in the future it's possible they might get behind in sensor technology like they were before Dragon was announced. But these differences won't make a measurable difference in which camera you ultimately want to use as there's no bad choice these days.
 
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Cosmo D said:
That’s exactly why it’s worrisome for Red. Most cinema movies are shot on Alexa, Red is now specialized in shooting 3D because of its size + resolution, CGI movies and Netflix shows because of the extra resolution. The Varicam is spreading on Netflix, many shows will switch to the Alexa LF, now the Venice will take the 3D and CGI segment as it seems lighter handheld with a lot of power behind (the 2 clips look great). Dual iso is everywhere since the Varicam, resolution and size are not the trademark of Red anymore. There is still HFR for Red but people need 60/100fps max in general. I see why Red is cutting the prices. Difficult transition times.
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I think conventional network shows and features could also shoot on Venice. There's some very attractive ideas in this camera for a lot of live action applications, not just 3D and CGI.

But the reality is that giving cinematographers more choices is good for users: you've got Alexa 4K, Alexa 6K, Sony Venice 6K, Sony F65 8K, Panasonic Varicam 4K, and several varieties of Red (including the Panavised DXL cameras). From a Hollywood/NY rental point of view, it almost doesn't matter -- the daily/weekly rental prices are not gigantically different for cameras over $20,000. And the lenses, grip gear, mounts, power supplies, lighting, and DIT gear are all the same. And in truth, the extra stuff can cost more than the camera, especially if you got a complete set of Zeiss Master Primes or Supreme Prime lenses or something.
 
The Social Network, though a great film, was made 10 years ago. Surely there have been Oscar nominated films since then shot on Red, no?
 
MichaelJQuill said:
Has there ever been an Oscar nominated film shot on Red?
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Room (2015)
Nominated for:
Best Picture
Directing
Writing (Adapted Screenplay)

Winner: Brie Larson (Actress in a Leading Role)
 
I think we should make a list of all the best cinematography nominated films shot with RED as a principle camera. It's misleading because on the RED site they list so many shows/movies where other cameras where principal.
 
MichaelJQuill said:
Has there ever been an Oscar nominated film shot on Red?
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For best cinematography/best picture not many.
From 2007 to 2018:

District 9
The social network (cinematography)
Winter’s bone
The girl with the dragon tattoo (cinematography)
The Martian
Room
 
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