Attitude adjustment...

[Domenic Barbero]

I wouldn't call it a race to the bottom. It's a race to the ultimate camera. The line between consumer and professional camera should not be dictated by price. The best camera isn't always the most expensive. There is definitely a line between amateur and professionalism though. Luckily gear doesn't dictate that. Remember not to long ago, no DP owned a camera. Did it make them less worthy or talented? I don't walk into a room and get them to take me seriously because of my gear. You would hope that you're there based on your talent. Todays best gear will be left in the dust in a few years. Your work will hopefully stand the test of time regardless of the gear it was shot on.

I honestly cant wait till its a race to the ultimate story. You can make cameras bigger, better, cheaper, i wish people were taking as much time as RED to create original content in hollywood.

 

[Yaque Silva-Doyle]

I can truly and honestly say my attitude has been completely and fully adjusted.

 

[Louis Kreusel]

First, I'll be yet another voice that says this is awesome news. Especially the R1 MX.

But second, an honest question. If an owner/op wants to make an investment with an eye toward rental income, the thing to invest in would be glass and stuff like c-stands correct? I ask this as someone who is weighing just such an investment...

 

[Bob Gundu]

Think of the rental side as extra gravy. I wouldn't rely on it though.

First, I'll be yet another voice that says this is awesome news. Especially the R1 MX.

But second, an honest question. If an owner/op wants to make an investment with an eye toward rental income, the thing to invest in would be glass and stuff like c-stands correct? I ask this as someone who is weighing just such an investment...

 

[Dave Blackham]

And by the way, the 50% cut is really 30% for the epic and something like 20% reduction for Scarlet if you think about it. The reason is as I've stated multiple times elsewhere in the thread is that for those people that have forgotten, the original Epic price was actually only about 27k and many people purchased it at that price. The only reason it went to the recent 34.5k is because the tsunami catastrophe that hit japan destroyed many electronics components factories and made them more expensive to import and thus forced Red to raise the prices. So really the Epic as originally designed was always a 27k brain to begin with so in some ways the real reduction is from 27k to 19k which is closer to 30%, which while huge, is not as drastic sounding as a 50%++ cut.

Id say 17% to 20% for a full Epic camera kit depending on whats in it of course. I can live with that based on whats going on in the electronics world right now.

 

[Zachary Marsh]

Ha ha ha

bullshit.

Availability aside, please tell me where I'm wrong. It takes weeks, or sometimes months to get items from RED and they are constantly on back order. Please, please tell me how it's so different from the BMCC.

 

[Louis Kreusel]

Thanks Bob.

Think of the rental side as extra gravy. I wouldn't rely on it though.

 

[Adam Welch]

Availability aside, please tell me where I'm wrong. It takes weeks, or sometimes months to get items from RED and they are constantly on back order. Please, please tell me how it's so different from the BMCC.

I think Jarred was referring to your comment about not having to buy anything else, when in fact you would have to buy other thing to get the BMCC going.

 

[Brent Carter]

Availability aside, please tell me where I'm wrong. It takes weeks, or sometimes months to get items from RED and they are constantly on back order. Please, please tell me how it's so different from the BMCC.

Even though you said "availability aside"...

Actually, we have significantly improved our item availability performance - to the point where Jarred posted this last April: "Amazing how times have changed.. We are proudly out of Backorder on 90% of product. Manufacturing is on Fire."

Sure, there will always be items affected here and there (like the special circumstances with the SCARLET BT's), but I think the RED owners who have been with us for a long time will agree the statement of "sometimes months to get items from RED and they are constantly on back order" is not the issue it once was.

 

[Zachary Marsh]

Even though you said "availability aside"...

Actually, we have significantly improved our item availability performance - to the point where Jarred posted this last April: "Amazing how times have changed.. We are proudly out of Backorder on 90% of product. Manufacturing is on Fire."

Sure, there will always be items affected here and there (like the special circumstances with the SCARLET BT's), but I think the RED owners who have been with us for a long time will agree the statement of "sometimes months to get items from RED and they are constantly on back order" is not the issue it once was.

Credit should be given where it's due. It's true. I'm just saying, you can't be super critical of them, it's not like RED hasn't been guilty in the past.

I think Jarred was referring to your comment about not having to buy anything else, when in fact you would have to buy other thing to get the BMCC going.

Like what?

 

[Peter Dmitriyev]

.........what....?

If you think there are more professional movies shot on RED you must be crazy... yes, RED is growing in popularity thanks to movies like The Social Network and Prometheus, but still, the camera of choice for most things is the Alexa. That is a fact.

Yeah, that's not fact at all. There are more movies currently in theatres shot on Red than Alexa, that is fact. There are more bigger budget blockbusters shot on Red than Alexa, that is fact. So I'm not sure what you're getting at. But the point is even if Alexa was a bit ahead, it still does not in any way mean that people are "only now beginning to notice the Red" as you stated. That seems specious of an argument. Red is one of the biggest and most recognizable names in the industry and has been a camera most recently used by a who's who of the greatest modern directors in the world including David Fincher, Steven Soderbergh, Ridley Scott, Peter Jackson, James Cameron, Sam Rami, Baz Luhrman, Robert Zemeckis, Bryan Singer, Ron Howard, et all...so yeah...I don't know what you mean at all

 

[Adam Welch]

Like what?

You would still be investing in SSDs and batteries, I don't think you would want to rely on the internal battery. And depending on if you are just getting into the business you would need lenses.

 

[Peter Dmitriyev]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_shot_in_digital thanks for the list someone posted:

I count 69 Alexa movies there, 75+ movies shot on Red.

Kind of goes to prove the argument that "Red is only now getting noticed" is lacking substance

 

[cooper roberts]

Red must be the coolest company ever. Kudos. Huge Kudos.

It would be UBER uber cool of Red to extend some sort of credit to us Red owners who bought the recent Battle Tested Scarlets. If I would have known about the price change I would have just waited to buy a new one.

 

[Zachary Marsh]

You would still be investing in SSDs and batteries, I don't think you would want to rely on the internal battery. And depending on if you are just getting into the business you would need lenses.

I'm talking about my situation. I have SSD drives, and readers, Canon lenses, tripod support...and MAYBE I'd need to buy an extra battery for out of studio environments. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't be able to shoot without it. The same goes with the Scarlet starter package...Sure it has a card and a battery, and you'd be able to shoot that, but you'd want a heck of a lot more.

EDIT: Maybe we should be more fair and compare packages from scratch instead of situational?

 

[Peter Dmitriyev]

Red must be the coolest company ever. Kudos. Huge Kudos.

It would be UBER uber cool of Red to extend some sort of credit to us Red owners who bought the recent Battle Tested Scarlets. If I would have known about the price change I would have just waited to buy a new one.

I think as others stated your battletested scarlet came with side SSD and some other free amenities that the new reduced price scarlet doesn't so you still got a better deal

 

[Michael Millichamp]

Yeah, that's not fact at all. There are more movies currently in theatres shot on Red than Alexa, that is fact. There are more bigger budget blockbusters shot on Red than Alexa, that is fact. So I'm not sure what you're getting at. But the point is even if Alexa was a bit ahead, it still does not in any way mean that people are "only now beginning to notice the Red" as you stated. That seems specious of an argument. Red is one of the biggest and most recognizable names in the industry and has been a camera most recently used by a who's who of the greatest modern directors in the world including David Fincher, Steven Soderbergh, Ridley Scott, Peter Jackson, James Cameron, Sam Rami, Baz Luhrman, Robert Zemeckis, Bryan Singer, Ron Howard, et all...so yeah...I don't know what you mean at all

Because majority of movies in theaters right now are 3d. Which RED is better at.

More bigger blockbusters? The Avengers.. Well, that argument is over.

Professionals are just now adopting RED. ARRI has been the standard forever. Now people are breaking the mold and going to RED. I don't understand how you don't get that.

Steven Soderbergh was an early adopter and so was Peter Jackson. David Fincher has been into digital since Zodiac, so of course it was the next step. James Cameron is all about 3D, so Epics are perfect choices for him. And the rest of those people you named, probably shot RED with a huge part of it due to how well it shoots 3D.

You can not deny that the industry standard has been ARRI for a long time.

 

[Asif Limbada]

I appreciate the sympathetic nod to we Scarlet owners but, honestly, I don't feel hard hit at all. I ordered my Scarlet in Nov/2011 and received it in February. Have shot happily for several months now and my $9750 "investment" (and I use the term loosely), in brain, SSD module and lens mount now sells for $10,150. I actually hadn't done the math before now but now I realize the new set-up is actually more expensive than I paid. Meanwhile, I've accumulated accessories that can be moved over to an Epic, if I decide to get one.

The Epic is a fabulous deal but, right now, I'd be happy if I could just bump my Scarlet up to 5K/24 fps and maybe get higher frames rates at the lower resolution, too. Personally, I am not even that hot on Dragon for myself as yet (although, that will probably change. lol)

It's true the path to upgrade to Epic is not clear now. Unless RED does some sort of trade-in or upgrade program, I'll have to sell my Scarlet and buy Epic outright but that's not such a terrible option either. Right now, I am good! :thumbsup:

Lets be honest, USD10K+ Scarlet body was reachable than the USD35K+ EPIC for many till Nov 1st. I can only hope if all the (New) Scarlet owners would have the same "attitude adjustment" ;-)

 

[Adam Welch]

I'm talking about my situation. I have SSD drives, and readers, Canon lenses, tripod support...and MAYBE I'd need to buy an extra battery for out of studio environments. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't be able to shoot without it. The same goes with the Scarlet starter package...Sure it has a card and a battery, and you'd be able to shoot that, but you'd want a heck of a lot more.

Pick which ever tool fits your needs the best. If you already have pretty much everything you need for a BMCC and don't mind waiting go right ahead and get one. I picked a Scarlet because it was a good fit for what I will be using it for. Camera and their accessories are tools, and you should pick the tools that work for you the best.

 

[Zachary Marsh]

Pick which ever tool fits your needs the best. If you already have pretty much everything you need for a BMCC and don't mind waiting go right ahead and get one. I picked a Scarlet because it was a good fit for what I will be using it for. Camera and their accessories are tools, and you should pick the tools that work for you the best.

I absolutely agree. Never said otherwise.