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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Ask David Mullen ANYTHING

Joe G. said:
Hi David,

I’m wondering about middle gray, the 18% card thing. Can you elaborate on how this affects your exposure decisions?

Perhaps 18% is what the middle gray value would be when converting from linear to logarithmic space (as opposed to 50%)? Is that true? And do you always try and get faces to register near that point?

How do “ratios” come into the equation? How are they calculated generally?

Anyone can weigh in if they know the subject.
Click to expand...

It is a great question since many people don't consider where the middle grey is for the gamma curve they are usually working in - whether that be log, linear, standard gamma or cine/hyper gammas, etc... For this reason's its important to conduct your own tests or read the white papers (where available) so you know the mapping of specific values; mainly for 2% black, 18% middle grey and 90% white. For example with C-log middle grey is 33% but with S-Log middle grey is 38%,... 90% white is also down in the low 60's range depending on who's log your talking about...

With the RED cameras you can use the false color feature and it will show in "green" color what is reflecting at 18% grey (44-47 IRE). Caucasian skin around 55%IRE shows pinkish. The one REALLY good thing about shooting with RED is because it is raw and you have such incredible lattitude in post you can decide if you want to place your skin tones for example 1 stop under middle grey in post and don't need to shoot it in-camera that way..

I suggest you look at page 104 for example in the EPIC Operating Guide PDF, there is a ton of great information there on exposure - http://s3.amazonaws.com/red_3/downloads/manuals/EPIC_Operation_Guide_v3.3_Rev-C.pdf
 
Hi David,

I know that with your current show you are shooting a lot of dance routines. I was curious about the settings you find best for this sort of work. Primarily interested in your FPS and shutter angle, but if you have any other settings or details that you feel are crucial for capturing dance, I would be interested in your opinion.

Thanks,

Bill
 
William Dempsey said:
Hi David,

I know that with your current show you are shooting a lot of dance routines. I was curious about the settings you find best for this sort of work. Primarily interested in your FPS and shutter angle, but if you have any other settings or details that you feel are crucial for capturing dance, I would be interested in your opinion.

Thanks,

Bill
Click to expand...

I usually shoot at 24 fps with a 90 degree shutter angle for dance numbers.
 
Wardrobe and Makeup Tests

Wardrobe and Makeup Tests

When you're working on a television production or feature film, what sort of wardrobe and makeup tests do you do (if you have that luxury)? Are you typically lighting the actors to specific stops to see how the makeup and wardrobe responds on camera to specific lighting instruments? Mind sharing any examples?

Thanks for all your collective advice. It's a wealth of information.
 
Usually the hair & make-up tests are more for other people to see and evaluate, and get approval on -- they give me a chance to see what I will be working with, but that's less of the reason for them. The exception are hair & make-up tests designed for change the appearance of an actor, let's say to create a fake injury or other alteration, and tests are useful to see if the effect works before you get to the shooting day when it can be too late to make changes.

I do some filter tests and some lighting tests but not for evaluation by the network or producers, more for my own edification, to try something out.

If the hair & make-up test is for approval by the network, studio, or producers, I generally light the actors as attractively as possible in a high-key manner, I don't try and recreate some sort of mood lighting that the show might use now & then. If it's a test for a make-up effect (horror make-up for example) though I will use lighting that is closer to what the final project might use, and I might do a best-case and worst-case scenario, i.e. in bright lighting and dim lighting. You might even try testing the effect under different colors of light to see if they work in orange firelight versus blue moonlight, etc.

I do like shooting tests of color paints that the art department plan on using for sets, on small flats with an actor in wardrobe against it, that can tell you if the paint scheme is too dark or light, too colorful, etc.
 
Hi David
I have a project coming up (10-hrs of stock footage for an agency) where all delivery needs to be in the following compression option:
Mpeg 2 compression, 1080i 25 (or 50)p. It has to do with their PAL system. It can be in PRORESs as well but with the exact criteria.
Full HD 1920 x 1080 (Mpeg2, 50mbps) - 1080i 25 or 50p 50Hz for Dutch client.

Original capture will be in 4k with Scarlet 4kHD, 30fps 7:1 compression more or less...
I am trying to make my life easier as client does not want Raw or anything close.
Will an Atomos Samurai or Ninja do the trick of recording simultaneously so I do not have to transcode 10hrs of final clips?
Is the color rendition loyal enough to the original acquisition?
Please advise if you feel this or any other product can give me the best results for the investment..... All capture is for natural history Type
images so portability is essential.

Please advise off forum if prefered: mauricio@handlerphoto.com
 
Mauricio Handler said:
Hi David
I have a project coming up (10-hrs of stock footage for an agency) where all delivery needs to be in the following compression option:
Mpeg 2 compression, 1080i 25 (or 50)p. It has to do with their PAL system. It can be in PRORESs as well but with the exact criteria.
Full HD 1920 x 1080 (Mpeg2, 50mbps) - 1080i 25 or 50p 50Hz for Dutch client.

Original capture will be in 4k with Scarlet 4kHD, 30fps 7:1 compression more or less...
I am trying to make my life easier as client does not want Raw or anything close.
Will an Atomos Samurai or Ninja do the trick of recording simultaneously so I do not have to transcode 10hrs of final clips?
Is the color rendition loyal enough to the original acquisition?
Please advise if you feel this or any other product can give me the best results for the investment..... All capture is for natural history Type
images so portability is essential.

Please advise off forum if prefered: mauricio@handlerphoto.com
Click to expand...

I don't know if the HDMI or HD-SDI out in the Scarlet can be set for 1080/25P for external recording but I would think you'd want to shoot 25P, not 30P, if for European TV delivery. The "original" acquisition is RAW so in a sense, there is no color rendition until it is converted to RGB, it's just that you lose flexibility in color-correction if you have to work with a Rec.709 gamma output. But in terms of the color, it should be fine, whatever you chose in the camera menu.
 
David
Thank you for your insight.
The footage will ultimately be used here in a US production possibly for TV- would it not be prudent to stay at 30fps?
I would still have to deliver in 25p - what are my options? can I not just shoot at 30 and when transcoding (if I went that way) just deliver in this new format?
DO you have any source to confirm if I can output to 1080/25p?
Many thanks...
Mauricio
 
Correction to my previous post:
I need to deliver at 1080i 50 (PAL Europe)
What is the best way to transcode on the spot or quickly 10hrs of deliveries shot on Scarlet 4kHD 24 - would this be my best settings
so to be able to use the footage for US and PAL without further transcode?
The Techs at Sound Devises say the PIX240i cannot do a reliable 1080i 50 (PAL) from Red (NTSC) dropped frame issues.

Are my only options here to trasncode all footage via traditional ways?

Thank you!
 
Hi David,

Thaks so much for all of your awesome, generous help!

Here's my question for you. I"m going to be shooting a short film with an APS-C DSLR and I'm wondering about the lighting kit?

Here is a breakdown of the scene types:

1. Interior at night in bedroom. Moonlight coming in through the window. Can put lights outside.

2. Interior at night in bathroom. Bathroom lighting, nothing coming in through the window.

3. Interior at night in dining room. Dining room lighting, no significant light coming in through the windows.

4. Interior at night in car. Dashboard and possibly moonlight. Can put lights outside the car.

5. Interior at day in coffee shop. Mixture of coffee shop lighting and sun light. Not allowed to put lights on the street.

6. Interior at day in car. Sunlight. Can put lights outside of car.

7. Exterior at day along rail road tracks. Probably can only use natural light b/c I don't know if we will have a generator.

The DSLR we're looking to use is pretty clean up to 1600. We're hoping to use just two zoom lenses, a 18 to 55mm 3.5 to 5.6 and a 55mm to 200mm 4.5 to 5.6. We have some diopters to get really close if need be. But we realize that we are probably going to need some faster primes.

Keeping in mind that this a low budget short, can you give your opinion on the lighting kit we're going to need?

Thank you so much. And if you need any other information, I'll gladly provide it. Thanks again!!
 
You didn't say whether the night car interior was for a moving car...

Think of lighting moonlight interiors like lighting day interiors, you want a mix of hard sunlight creating patterns and soft light, the only difference is that you can use more or less of the soft light depending on how much contrast you want or need, how stark you want the moonlight to look. It also depends on whether the moon is the only light source in a scene. I tend to go from the blue moonlight effect just so that a viewer knows that it is meant to be moonlight, how blue is a matter of taste. It also depends on the general level of color saturation you are planning to use in camera or in post because if you are timing for a somewhat muted feeling, then the blue may have to be stronger just to see the difference in color. Lately I've been using uncorrected daylight sources (fluorescents, LED's, HMI's) for moonlight or Full CTB on tungsten lamps, but that's because the projects have been timed for a somewhat desaturated look. If I were going for stronger saturation in timing, I tend to use 1/2 blue for moonlight. But it depends... if the whole scene is only lit with blue moonlight and I have HMI's, I sometimes just shoot uncorrected for a full blue effect knowing that I can dial the strength of the blue up or down in post easily. It only gets more critical to pick the right shade if you are mixing the blue moonlight with another color source in the frame.

Just because a camera can go to 1600 ASA, I wouldn't rely on that except for scenes that have to be low-light because the sources are naturally at that level -- candle light, scenes on city streets at night, etc. -- where you want to balance your lighting to the sources in the space and not overpower them.

On the other hand, with a limited crew and package, it's best generally to use as much natural light as possible -- it probably will look better than whatever you can add anyway. For some day interiors like the coffee shop, it may be better to turn off some overheads rather than add more lighting, just depends.

If you want a hard moonlight pattern to come through the bedroom windows, then a fresnel lamp like a 650w Tweenie with blue gel is probably the best bet, whether it's a tweenie or a 1K, etc. just depends on the size of the window and the distance the lamp has to be from it.

I don't know what your budget or crew situation is like so it is hard to make recommendations, I could be totally off base and suggest more than you really need or can manage. There is also the need for grip equipment to control the light.

For night interiors with practical lamps on, some small tungsten bounces often work well to augment. Chinese Lanterns are also a good tool. I often bounce light into bedsheets or muslin draped on some furniture, pinned to the wall, or hung off some c-stands. But you may want some flags to control the spill.

I would tend to assemble a kit that is all under 20 amps / 2K, so that you can use wall outlets, sources that use power more efficiently being a good idea.

So perhaps a few tungsten lamps like a 150w Dedolight or 150w Pepper, a 300w, and a 650w tungsten fresnel... then a couple of Kinoflos (two 4' 4-bank, one 2' 4-bank, two 4' singles) with both 5600K and 3200K tubes, and maybe a Kino Miniflo car kit for the car, or Rosco Litepads, or Litepanel Micros... plus some Litepanel 1x1 LED's and batteries for them. Then the question is whether you need an HMI to create daylight on a bigger scale than the Kinos or Litepanels can provide, or if you need to create a strong sunlight effect -- at that point, I might toss in a 1.8K or 1.2K HMI PAR or a 1.2K tungsten "firestarter" PARCAN for a punchy strong beam of sunlight effect. Just keep in mind that your DSLR probably tends to get clippy quickly.
 
Thanks so much David. :)

The car is parked for all of the interior car shots.

As far as gels, I've got the regular assored strengths of ND, diffusion, CTO and CTB. Off the top of your head, are there other color temps or gel types that you think we should carry? Thanks again!
 
How about steel and straw? Thanks again ;).

P.S. I've been under the impression that if forced to have only one color temperature of LED light, it's better to have a daylight balanced version and, if need be to correct to tungsten, use CTO than to have a tungsten balanced version and, if need be correct to daylight, use CTB. Is that correct? Many more thanks!
 
Smashing

Smashing

Kudos to you and your crew for how great Smash has been looking the last few weeks. Shout out to the choreographer and dolly grip for some terrific timing on some of the dolly moves when shooting scenes with good sized groups of dancers - wow. I'll save my filtration queries for another day, but suffice it to say I've been enjoying seeing how you use them.

Cheers - #19
 
Peter Moretti said:
How about steel and straw? Thanks again ;).

P.S. I've been under the impression that if forced to have only one color temperature of LED light, it's better to have a daylight balanced version and, if need be to correct to tungsten, use CTO than to have a tungsten balanced version and, if need be correct to daylight, use CTB. Is that correct? Many more thanks!
Click to expand...

Full Blue correction loses 2-stops of output, Full Orange correction loses 2/3-stop, so it is more efficient to gel a daylight LED to tungsten than to gel a tungsten LED to daylight, particularly because tungsten-lit interiors tend to be lower in light level than daylight situations, so you generally need the output more in daylight.

Now when it comes to gelling daylight fixtures versus using an actual tungsten lamp (not an LED), real tungsten lamps are full spectrum, no green spike, and are consistent between fixtures, and put out a nicer color on skin tones, but I don't think there is any color advantage with 3200K LED's versus gelling a 5600K LED to 3200K.

Sure, use Steel or Straw if you have them, but they are not absolutely necessary. Straw (CTS) is just a bit more yellow than Orange (CTO) but that's also something you can time for in post. Not sure what shade Steel is, but you can add a bit of Plus Green to CTB and create a shade of cyan that is probably similar.
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
Kudos to you and your crew for how great Smash has been looking the last few weeks. Shout out to the choreographer and dolly grip for some terrific timing on some of the dolly moves when shooting scenes with good sized groups of dancers - wow. I'll save my filtration queries for another day, but suffice it to say I've been enjoying seeing how you use them.

Cheers - #19
Click to expand...

Thanks! Besides the dolly grips, credit goes to my operator Jeff Muhlstock on those camera moves (nominated for an SOC award for his work on the show) -- he really knows how to get the dolly grips and crane operators coordinated to pull off a great shot during a dance number. He has years of experience shooting live music & dance events, which really paid off on a show like "Smash". Considering we often only had a half-day to shoot a big musical number (2/3's of a day at the most ever), sometimes only three or four hours for the smaller numbers, the fact that Jeff could pull off a great shot that covered most of the number in only a few takes -- sometimes in only one take! -- really saved us. He would do these Steadicam takes that practically could be used as a single shot that covered the whole number (to be chopped up later in editing anyway, however...) He'd move in close on a wide-angle lens between dancers doing flips and spins and always had the lens and his body in the perfect spot, somehow he'd have memorized the entire choreography after just watching it a few times.
 
Hey David

I've been a long time reader of this thread, so thanks for all the awesome insight!

Anyway, I've been planning a shoot that has a scene that takes place at night on a high school football field. In the story, there would be no stadium lights on.

I'm basically trying to figure out what is the smallest units we could get away with and make this work. The shoot will have 2 1.2k or M18 HMIs for the rest of the shoot, but I'm thinking I may need to augment the lighting package for this scene, but unfortunately am working with a very tight budget.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

-Alan
 
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