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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Arri DR Test...

Jannard said:
You just saw a working EPIC prototype in form factor... how did you draw the conclusion that MX EPIC S35 is 1+ years away?

Jim
Click to expand...

All this tattoo thing, with all these rules in which can order who cant and how back someone is on the line... makes me and others (I believe) that this is when we going to put our fingers in one...

Hope that I'm wrong... but unfortunately I'm aiming in Epic FF35... that's monstro, so if today we discussing about MX and about two years ago was the first glimpse of planning MX, that means monstro will come into picture 2011 September plus 1y to be on the online store +1y for us simple people to put a finger on it... you see its going to be another Rock Star camera... so total is 2013...

I hope that you are right and all this happen sooner... you have the knife and you have the melon as we say in Greece... but a business plan is something that has to take all aspects into account...

Probably with the ASIC ready it will be sooner... but again a new sensor is another pile of worms...

I have three films in the line to film out please release soon this REDfilm... Keep up the good work Jim...
 
Jannard said:
As many have pointed out before... DR is not the only criteria that should be used to judge the overall performance of a camera. We include price, convenience, service, resolution, color, post workflow, and reliability... among other things. But it is nice to know that the M-X sensor is right up there with the best of the newest.

Jim
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LOL!

Cool!
 
ronan michaux said:
"Dynamic Range" tab on this page :

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/DxOMark-Sensor
Click to expand...

According to DXOMARK Lab some of the leading DSLRs DR tests look like these below:

Nikon_D3X_DR.jpg

Nikon D3X is a DSLR leader with DR @ 13.7 stops.

Canon_1DMK4_DR.jpg

Canon 1DMK4 has DR @ 12 stops.

Canon_5DMK2_DR.jpg

Canon 5DMK2 has DR @ 11.9 stops.

Canon_7D_DR.jpg

Canon 7D has DR @ 11.7 stops.

LINK >>>
 
Martin Stevens said:
The only problem I see with the "Arri DRTC" is that it has too narrow
a test range. If 35mm Film can have more than 14 Stops of DR,
then I would like to see Arri, but preferably Red, create a DRTC
that can reveal 20 Stops, this way people can also use it to test
different film emulsions and the Monstro when it comes out.
:emote_popcorn:

Also, when the Monstro delivers 15.5 Stops of DR........I will
be more than blown away. I will be elated!
:cheers2:
Click to expand...

The DRTC can display 15 stops in one frame and is capable of measuring up to 20.
 
I think you mis-read Dylan - the chart is only 15 stops, and yes, that's not enough. I'm using an 18 stop chart now for my R&D work. The Stouffer was only 13.66 stops and we "outgrew" that a while back. Similarly, I need new resolution charts because with 4.5k on RED One, and 5K on Epic, I've outgrown my old charts.

Graeme
 
Graeme Nattress said:
I think you mis-read Dylan - the chart is only 15 stops, and yes, that's not enough. I'm using an 18 stop chart now for my R&D work. The Stouffer was only 13.66 stops and we "outgrew" that a while back. Similarly, I need new resolution charts because with 4.5k on RED One, and 5K on Epic, I've outgrown my old charts.

Graeme
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The spec chart says it can measure "15 stops in one frame", but also reads "The certificate is measured with a highly precise spectroradiometer utilizing a double monochromator with a photomultiplier (the only device capable of measuring 20 f-stops, or a dynamic range of 1,000,000:1)"

Although most of that is jibberish to me, I assumed it to mean there is a way of bracketing that 15 stops to extrapolate an effective 20 stop reading.

There is supposedly going to be a DRTC in Toronto some time soon. Haven't gotten to see it yet. But appreciate the clarification.
 
Well, you can bracket any chart to do an extended reading, but then you're not shooting the chart in a single frame any more. Indeed, they're talking about how they measure the chart for accuracy, rather than what the chart is capable of.

Graeme
 
I think it means that their 15 stop chart is certified as accurate using a device which can measure 20 stops.
 
Much like our eyes have a limit of resolution beyond which more res is not really seen (although it does allow much more latitude for re-framing and stabilization) I think we need to now start thinking about filming environments and their own dynamic range.

The 12 stop cameras we have here are ALMOST at the point where dynamic range is not so often a problematic limitation if exposed correctly, with some effort to control things, in the real world. That is to say, you can shoot on a bright sunny day and ALMOST get exposure in the shadows that is adequate, and often it's not bad at all.

Radiosity (the physics of light bounce) says that no matter how hard your light sources are, there is likely something to bounce-in fill into the shadows, unless you are shooting in an old-school nightclub where everything is painted matte-black.

I would say that at 13.5 stops, you are covered, pretty much all the time - you are almost never stuck choosing between crush and burn. . You could for example shoot someone by a bright window, and without crazy amounts of hair-igniting lights indoors to fill, get correct exposure on the street outside and the characters indoors.

Don't get me wrong - give me HDR-like 20 stops and I'll take it, but 13,5 stops is beginning to approach the dynamic range present in a majority of sets in the real world - and this real-world range is a bench mark that is important.
 
I think what we all want is a camera that can record 20+ Stops,
so we can use 16+ Stops that are super noise free, and leave the
noisy 4+ Stops behind.
:sifone:
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
According to DXOMARK Lab some of the leading DSLRs DR tests look like these below:


Nikon D3X is a leader with DR @ 13.7 stops.
Canon 1DMK4 has DR @ 12 stops.
Canon 5DMK2 has DR @ 11.9 stops.
Canon 7D has DR @ 11.7 stops.

LINK >>>
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that they might measure dynamic range differently. It's interesting and potentially insightful but unwise to draw too many conclusions from two methodologies.
 
Thomas Mark Schaefer said:
And even before that, does anyone know what the dynamic range of the projection in a good theater is?
Click to expand...

Theoretical maximum for 35mm film projection is in the 500:1 range, about 9 stops DR. Digital can potentially do better, up to about 1000:1. Most theaters fall short, typically measuring under 200:1 contrast ratio, due to even the small amount of ambient light from safety lights. When the lights go down, the white of the screen is the darkest black you will see under any conditions.
 
You always want to originate with more range than the projected image -- due to the need to create a solid black on screen, there has to be a lot more gamma in the projection format. But obviously in film we don't shoot color reversal, which has projection contrast built-in, because we need to be able to color-correct it, copy it, etc. Same goes for digital, we need some flexibility in color-correction to throw some information away, otherwise we have to shoot everything exactly for how it will look projected.
 
Is the Epic S35 going to be upgradable to monstro or is it more than just the sensor what set those bodies apart ?.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
Same goes for digital, we need some flexibility in color-correction to throw some information away, otherwise we have to shoot everything exactly for how it will look projected.
Click to expand...

This should be taped to the desk for anyone shooting and preparing images for online from RED or whatever digital or analogue format....
 
I can't wait to get my f#cking hands on MX. Red 352 is supposedly being upgraded this week, then it's ON.

Michael Bravin I love you man but I'm gonna make Arri cry with the images I shoot on MX.
 
Rodrigo Lizana said:
Is the Epic S35 going to be upgradable to monstro or is it more than just the sensor what set those bodies apart ?.
Click to expand...

Yeah you will need a new Monstro brain. The guts have to be more powerful as well to move all that data off the sensor.
 
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