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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Arri DR Test...

Michael Lindsay said:
What would make this really useful would be if you could find the time to pop the old red 1 on there and see what you get?
Click to expand...

I completely agree. Every time a DP tells me the RED ONE has a limited dynamic range, it would be great if I could tell him "Well, the new sensor has X more stops of range".

It's already easy to blow people away by telling them that the new sensor at ISO 800 is as clean as the old sensor at 320. A comparison would be extremely useful.
 
Michael Lindsay said:
Hi

It's very interesting and pleasing that Arri's DR test is showing 13.5 stops with Mysterium X

What would make this really useful would be if you could find the time to pop the old red 1 on there and see what you get?

thank you

Michael
Click to expand...

To be perfectly clear, This is not an ARRI DR test, this is test done with a chart designed and sold by ARRI called the DRTC (Dynamic Range Test Chart). The chart is a way of measuring dynamic range and noise and has software that plots this on a graph for comparison and evaluation. While it might sound obvious, the results here are the results of the test done with this chart, by people at RED. More info on the chart and its proper use here:
http://www.arridigital.com/forum/index.php/topic,440.0.html
and here: http://www.arri.de/camera/35_mm_digital/dynamic_range_test_charts.html
 
Michael Bravin said:
To be perfectly clear, This is not an ARRI DR test, this is test done with a chart designed and sold by ARRI called the DRTC (Dynamic Range Test Chart). The chart is a way of measuring dynamic range and noise and has software that plots this on a graph for comparison and evaluation. While it might sound obvious, the results here are the results of the test done with this chart, by people at RED. More info on the chart and its proper use here:
http://www.arridigital.com/forum/index.php/topic,440.0.html
and here: http://www.arri.de/camera/35_mm_digital/dynamic_range_test_charts.html
Click to expand...

Michael... you are correct. I stated this pretty clearly in Post #1... but not sure why your clarification here. Is the Arri test subject to interpretation? We see that Arri has changed the methodology since posting that the Alexa had 12.1 stops (now 13.5) and followed the newer protocol. Graeme and Deanan have been extremely careful to follow the methodology to the letter.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
Michael... you are correct (as I stated that Graeme and Deanan would supply backup to the tests) but not sure why the clarification. Is the Arri test subject to interpretation? We see that Arri has changed the methodology since posting that the Alexa had 12.1 stops (now 13.5) and followed the newer protocol. Graeme and Deanan have been extremely careful to follow the methodology to the letter.

Jim
Click to expand...

No worries Jim, I had received several inquires for me to show the results of ARRI's DR test showing the MX with 13.5 stops, thinking we had done the test and supplied you guys with the results. I believe Deanan is coming in this week to go over the procedure with Stephan and I.

We haven't "changed" methodology, Hans is refining the Aquamat analysis software and we now have a process to deliver a calibrated chart to customers since we are now selling the DRTC to the public. We want the test procedure and Aquamat software to be a simple and repeatable test for users, that's all.


Michael
 
Michael Bravin said:
No worries Jim, I had received several inquires for me to show the results of ARRI's DR test showing the MX with 13.5 stops, thinking we had done the test and supplied you guys with the results. I believe Deanan is coming in this week to go over the procedure with Stephan and I.

We haven't "changed" methodology, Hans is refining the Aquamat analysis software and we now have a process to deliver a calibrated chart to customers since we are now selling the DRTC to the public. We want the test procedure and Aquamat software to be a simple and repeatable test for users, that's all.


Michael
Click to expand...

Michael... I'm a bit confused. In this Arri spec on the website, The Alexa was shown to have 12.1 stops of DR from the DRTC test.

1268524721.png


Now... it is shown to have 13.5 stops. What changed? The sensor or the methodology of the test?

Jim
 
I''m asking myself why should an ARRI DR test that sold by ARRI and called the DRTC (Dynamic Range Test Chart)

be relevant to any sort of sensor DYNAMIC RANGE TEST.

It's just a commercial product that ARRI consider is good to have because they want to build ARRI brand name as a sort of leader

in acquiring, post-producing and even testing new digital sensors.

It looks like a carefully designed to be as a pure "trap" and I would no recommend that RED or any other competitive

digital sensor/camera maker should fall in this technologically "foolish" game.

My recommendation is just to get out of this way.

Air is a much fresher on the other side of this door.

On the another language speaking those tests are considered as a pot of strange tricks.

It sound like this:

Hey, you are competing with me but listen, only I have an "instrument" that tells exactly how you are "good"

or another word "only I can say how you are doing or even if you are able to mach close to me".

All that sounds as a good pre-text for a Hollywood comedy!!!
 
Martin Stevens said:
Sooooooo...... if the MX Sensor is going to deliver around 13.5 stops,
then what is the new Dynamic Range goal for the Monstro Sensor?
Click to expand...

Target spec for Monstro is 2 stops more DR than M-X.

Jim
 
Michael Bravin said:
To be perfectly clear, This is not an ARRI DR test, this is test done with a chart designed and sold by ARRI ...
Click to expand...
Jannard said:
Michael... you are correct. I stated this pretty clearly in Post #1... but not sure why your clarification here.

Jim
Click to expand...
Sanjin Jukic said:
I''m asking myself why should an ARRI DR test that sold by ARRI and called the DRTC (Dynamic Range Test Chart) be relevant to any sort of sensor DYNAMIC RANGE TEST.

It looks like a carefully designed to be as a pure "trap" and I would no recommend that RED or any other competitive digital sensor/camera maker should fall in this technologically "foolish" game.
Click to expand...

Jim... let me introduce you to Sanjin. :D
 
Sanjin Jukic said:
I''m asking myself why should an ARRI DR test that sold by ARRI and called the DRTC (Dynamic Range Test Chart)

be relevant to any sort of sensor DYNAMIC RANGE TEST.

It's just a commercial product that ARRI consider is good to have because they want to build ARRI brand name as a sort of leader

in acquiring, post-producing and even testing new digital sensors.

It looks like a carefully designed to be as a pure "trap" and I would no recommend that RED or any other competitive

digital sensor/camera maker should fall in this technologically "foolish" game.

My recommendation is just to get out of this way.

Air is a much fresher on the other side of this door.

On the another language speaking those tests are considered as a pot of strange tricks.

It sound like this:

Hey, you are competing with me but listen, only I have an "instrument" that tells exactly how you are "good"

or another word "only I can say how you are doing or even if you are able to mach close to me".

All that sounds as a good pre-text for a Hollywood comedy!!!
Click to expand...

I don't see any smilies on that post so I'm wondering - are you serious?!
 
Jannard said:
Michael... I'm a bit confused. In this Arri spec on the website, The Alexa was shown to have 12.1 stops of DR from the DRTC test.

1268524721.png


Now... it is shown to have 13.5 stops. What changed? The sensor or the methodology of the test?

Jim
Click to expand...

I quote Hans Kiening from the Arri Digital forum:
http://www.arridigital.com/forum/index.php/topic,440.0.html

Quote from: Irri on March 11, 2010, 09:07:06 PM:
"I just noticed that the the Alev III sensor is quoted as having 12.1 stops of dynamic range here http://arridigital.com/teaser/sensitivity"

Quote from: Hans on March 11, 2010, 11:33:25 PM:
"Good point !
This was the rev A Status at IBC 2009 the final sensor provides more dynamic (13.5) and better snr than Rev A.
Thanks for the hint - we will remove it from the web !"
 
Film acquisition is "maybe" gonna die soon...

Film acquisition is "maybe" gonna die soon...

Leif Thomas said:
I don't see any smilies on that post so I'm wondering - are you serious?!
Click to expand...


Need smiles:

Here they are
:laugh::001_wub::tongue_smilie::party:


Also don't forget that high ISO/ASA or 12+ DR or 13+ DR are important things in a digital acquisition

but not the most important.

A camera that can have all that and plus 'stock looks spinning' possibilities at the and it can count as a WINNER.

Just wait till NAB and have a look there and AFTER.

Today a lot of digital acquisition systems could claim a high ISO/ASA (800) and DR but the image look is only that will count the most.

Get all 13 or even more film stock looks (Kodak and Fuji with or without grain applied) on your RAW image IN CAMERA (LOOK) and then you are just as a SAFE.



FILM ACQUISITION IS "MAYBE" GONNA DIE SOONER OR LATER

BUT THE FILM (STOCKS) LOOK IS NOT DEAD AT ALL,

IT WILL BE JUST "REPLACED" WITH A DIGITAL.
 
The only problem I see with the "Arri DRTC" is that it has too narrow
a test range. If 35mm Film can have more than 14 Stops of DR,
then I would like to see Arri, but preferably Red, create a DRTC
that can reveal 20 Stops, this way people can also use it to test
different film emulsions and the Monstro when it comes out.
:emote_popcorn:

Also, when the Monstro delivers 15.5 Stops of DR........I will
be more than blown away. I will be elated!
:cheers2:
 
Jannard said:
Michael... I'm a bit confused. In this Arri spec on the website, The Alexa was shown to have 12.1 stops of DR from the DRTC test.

1268524721.png


Now... it is shown to have 13.5 stops. What changed? The sensor or the methodology of the test?

Jim
Click to expand...

Jim
No change in methodology. Early sensor testing vs soon to be finished camera system testing. ALEXA's arriving soon. Your teasing me right?
 
Michael Bravin said:
Jim
No change in methodology. Early sensor testing vs soon to be finished camera system testing. ALEXA's arriving soon. Your teasing me right?
Click to expand...

We certainly understand improving through the process. :-)

Jim
 
Frank Weeks said:
15 1/2 stops. Wow
Just out of curiosity, what is the human eye rated at?
Click to expand...

We still have a long way to go... limits are everywhere, including displays.

Jim
 
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