Arri Alexa and Mysterium-X...

[Matt W.]

5219 resolves at 2.7k at best.

You may be right about the Alexa, though. I don't know the final specs. Anyhow, I'm sorry I got involved in this stupid argument in the first place. Rent what you want, no one's stopping you. The Scarlet and Alexa both look incredible to me.

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

You mean "except the financier/producer" of course

No, unless the only thing you valued the most is money, in which case movies are nothing but financial transactions. However, ASSuming that all financiers are in it for the money is wrong, and could be perceived as rude by the better breed of financiers, curators types who we pray will see our vision.

A Writer Director always has his "other people's money" invested in it.That is "potential money", which is just as important as it is required. The project fails, their "other people's" money suffers, or to put it in other words, you could be black-balled as unsuccessful. We see it all the time with stars. Not the same, but the same. That said, there is also a higher probability that your Writer Director will be amongst those individuals who are in it for things that go beyond this monopoly game we call reality, people like those curator types who's wings we dream about living under.

 

[Jannard]

Seems to me that Arri is about to release a fine camera... so are we. That should be good news for the industry. We believe that images will be reasonably comparable. We have a resolution and frame rate advantage. Arri has the advantage in being a more mature camera company. We are doing our best to catch up in that category and I'm sure they will do their best to catch up in the areas we have an advantage.

What is important is that these cameras are nearing the goal for digital to be a complete and no excuse alternative to film. The industry should consider celebrating all the good options there are now... IMHO.

Jim

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

^ Speaking of the devil. Here is a curator (aka artist) type, obviously with plenty of talent under his wingspan. Might even see a feature from him one day if he takes the "time off".

So you only need as many high speed source drives as your day's shooting requires.

Just to be clear, I assumed people would realize I was talking about narrative feature's sizable investment into 16-32 2TB drives for higher RC's, in two towers with one card, as RAID-6 with 800MB/s, plus RED Rocket™, always available to the director and DP, handled by the DIT. You need speed, you need it to be reliable, you need it always by your side.

... plus an LTO shipped to a vault, plus spares to mail/drive to your editor, plus spares for replacement of possible failures on the RAID.

Yeah I was being sarcastic, but the level of inane fanboyism here is so high it's hard to differentiate between sarcasm and legitimate delusion.

Agreed. But I'd say the issue is people writing dialogue, which requires an active reader, character development, and context to be interpreted.

It's just that the Alexa looks great, too, and Arri is just the best company in terms of build quality and customer service. (Which comes at a very literal cost, though; their products cost the most and they don't do substantial discounts, even for big rental houses.)

I will bet my little money that Epic will squash this last issue scaring so many who go out and write articles, film reviews, blog, post, even though they don't keep up with RED's speed of development.

Once that happens we can hope reactionary fanboyism might drop to a level that would allow for people to post with a little more patience, put more care into clarifying sarcasm... maybe then I will no longer be thought of as naive...

Given the images we've seen, Arri's 3.5k (assuming a decent debayer algorithm) at 800ISO should surpass 5219 in all areas but dynamic range (and even 13.5 stops wysiwyg is preferable to 15+ stops blind in some cases, as both will be compressed for exhibition).

Thank you! F'ing A!

Or 14.25 stops, wysiwyg, and a lower cost (plus all kinds of added features). :smash:

 

[Brook Willard]

The more people relax about which format is best... the more that we'll be able to learn the strengths of each individual tool. You never hear people arguing over the best film stock or the best film camera on a job. Yes, some studios prefer you to use one company's film versus another... but no producers will call you in the middle of the night when you decided to switch from your daylight stock to your high-speed stock. For some reason people have decided that the camera decision is now one to be argued about and made by the entire food chain. It becomes a marketing tool, a power play by producers and far to often a DP is forced into using a tool not appropriately suited for a job because somebody important wanted to shoot on _______ or the post guy didn't know how to deal with _______.

All of these cameras are tools. A sledge hammer is no better or worse than a ball peen hammer... it's just different. It has strengths and weaknesses.

Every camera has pros and cons. Every con has a workaround.

Studios form policies for this nonsense. Certain studios only allow use of certain cameras. Other studios require that certain cameras be recorded to certain types of recorders and nothing else. All of these people who shouldn't be involved in the creative cinematographic process are making these decisions when it really shouldn't be their choice to make. It's a bummer, but it's reality.

So what can we do? Learn the pros and cons of these systems and make the right decisions. Don't drop blanket statements over cameras and declare their inadequacy or bash them for their price. Just get excited and prepare to shoot some really cool stuff with some really fun new toys.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

amen Jim. amen. 2010 has proved a banner year for digital cinema and its only April

 

[Marc Weigert]

Here is the link of the full text of that "comparison" test between MX and Alexa from the same guy Marc Weigert...

...To conclude is to say that this article "sounds" a bit as a part of well organized plot and campaign against RED.

You can't be serious.

I have no bias towards ANY camera. Actually, I'm usually on the side of the smaller and more inventive companies. What I wrote in the HD magazine article were honest observations from our test. Period.

I've used the RedOne before (I made sure we shot VFX footage for 2012 with it, even though Sony doesn't like to talk about that, for obvious reasons). I was impressed with the Mysterium X sensor, but the few little things I mentioned in the article are correct. The ARRI was simply a bit better. Which you should expect at that price tag. No organized plot on my side.

Cheers,
Marc

 

[Tom.Wong]

You can't be serious.

I have no bias towards ANY camera. Actually, I'm usually on the side of the smaller and more inventive companies. What I wrote in the HD magazine article were honest observations from our test. Period.

I've used the RedOne before (I made sure we shot VFX footage for 2012 with it, even though Sony doesn't like to talk about that, for obvious reasons). I was impressed with the Mysterium X sensor, but the few little things I mentioned in the article are correct. The ARRI was simply a bit better. Which you should expect at that price tag. No organized plot on my side.

Cheers,
Marc

and let's all not forget, that this is just a comparison with the M-X sensor and it's already fairly close in all comparisons. MONSTRO is going to be, and will be better than the M-X. M-X is still housed in 4 year old tech... the improvements on top of that coming out are boundless.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

You can't be serious.

I have no bias towards ANY camera. Actually, I'm usually on the side of the smaller and more inventive companies. What I wrote in the HD magazine article were honest observations from our test. Period.

I've used the RedOne before (I made sure we shot VFX footage for 2012 with it, even though Sony doesn't like to talk about that, for obvious reasons). I was impressed with the Mysterium X sensor, but the few little things I mentioned in the article are correct. The ARRI was simply a bit better. Which you should expect at that price tag. No organized plot on my side.

Cheers,
Marc

Welcome to Reduser Marc! Most of us appreciate the spirit of the article (Film is Dead) and RED is flattered to be mentioned with, much less, favorably compared to ARRI.

And don't mind "The Sanjin" he is just a Vociferous Cave Guardian, his bark is worse than his bite- but he is cool, he shoots on vintage Leica glass!

Overall nice upbeat article. I mean you did rave over M-X noise at ISO 12000- and whats even more exciting is that it appears M-X is performing even better in the EPIC body/chipset.

cheers!

 

[Graeme Nattress]

You can't be serious.

I have no bias towards ANY camera. Actually, I'm usually on the side of the smaller and more inventive companies. What I wrote in the HD magazine article were honest observations from our test. Period.

I've used the RedOne before (I made sure we shot VFX footage for 2012 with it, even though Sony doesn't like to talk about that, for obvious reasons). I was impressed with the Mysterium X sensor, but the few little things I mentioned in the article are correct. The ARRI was simply a bit better. Which you should expect at that price tag. No organized plot on my side.

Cheers,
Marc

FYI, the M-X camera used was one of the first to be fitted with an M-X sensor - it was Ted's demo camera. At the time we didn't know what camera they were using. But since then, new builds have given the M-X cameras significantly better images.

Graeme

 

[Tim Morten]

Can't wait to see a rematch with finished cameras! I think the comment that surprised me the most was the downplaying of the perceived difference in resolution. One would expect a MARKED difference in perceived resolution, but I guess until I've sat in front of the footage myself I can only take the comment at face value. Measured resolution should be a different story of course, but I'm still surprised.

- Tim

 

[Graeme Nattress]

Tim, I'm sure that will occur... Of course, comparing cameras is never a simple task, not least that there's that many features to compare, and that "personal preference" is a big factor. Tough choices for anyone buying a new camera, not least some of the vast price differentials in professional camera products.

Graeme

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

You can't be serious.

I have no bias towards ANY camera. Actually, I'm usually on the side of the smaller and more inventive companies. What I wrote in the HD magazine article were honest observations from our test. Period.

I've used the RedOne before (I made sure we shot VFX footage for 2012 with it, even though Sony doesn't like to talk about that, for obvious reasons). I was impressed with the Mysterium X sensor, but the few little things I mentioned in the article are correct. The ARRI was simply a bit better. Which you should expect at that price tag. No organized plot on my side.

Cheers,
Marc

Welcome to the REDUser Marc!!!

It's very significant that your (first) reply on REDUser was on April 6th when simultaneously

at the Directors Guild of America special event supposed to be ARRI finally will unwrap remaining ALEXA details (onboard recording, etc...).

Maybe it's written before or after that event, can tell us something more..., but who cares now(!!!).

And of course that you are free to think what ever you want because we are on the Internet where anyone can write anything that they like.

"The ARRI was simply a bit better. Which you should expect at that price tag."

somehow this could (again) sound as a "biased" opinion of one "fresh" professional switcher from RED1 to Alexa.

Obviously that only Arri wanted to get exactly that sort of opinion in time of its Alexa's birth.

But anyway I would like to ask you when is possible for you to do it one more and clear comparison between

the two cams (ALEXA and R-1-M-X) maybe next time when you have chance to do another test.

... he shoots on vintage Leica glass!

Tim,

not to "bother" you but Leica M still lenses are better optically than the most of cine lens "crap", period. :biggrin:

Also I do have some of the newest Leica M lenses...

 

[jonnycom]

SxS cards that record ProRes 444 that's pretty cool

 

[jonnycom]

A couple of new Arri/Fuji lens 18-80 2.6 for both about $20k. Smart for fuji to brand them arri

 

[Martin Stevens]

The real test needs to be between the Red S35 Epic and the Alexa,
and not between the the Red One, with MX installed, and the Alexa.

Also the real test needs to be with release build firmware in both cameras.
Just because someone thinks that the Alexa was "a bit better" doesn't mean much
if they where using products not officially released to the public.

My bet is that when the Epic S35 is released properly it will be
"a lot better" than the Alexa.

 

[Chris Kenny]

I don't suppose there's any chance of Red licensing ProRes for the downscaled RGB recording modes, is there? That's kind of a killer feature on the Alexa that I didn't expect to see, and would be even more useful to some of Red's more cost-concious customers than to Arri's customers, who tend to have deeper pockets.

 

[Mike Gross]

I don't suppose there's any chance of Red licensing ProRes for the downscaled RGB recording modes, is there? That's kind of a killer feature on the Alexa that I didn't expect to see, and would be even more useful to some of Red's more cost-concious customers than to Arri's customers, who tend to have deeper pockets.

With apple cutting the FCP group and removing the express cards slots, this was a bad bad decision. DNxHD and SSD would have been much smarter. I'm disappointed in Arri on this one. I'm still hurting from their decision not to do 4k on Alexa.

 

[Grady Wilson]

I don't suppose there's any chance of Red licensing ProRes for the downscaled RGB recording modes, is there?.

Red announced 1080 RGB downscaled recording 6 months ago but I can't remember what format they were recording to, does anybody remember?

 

[Charles Stewart Jr]

With apple cutting the FCP group

I'm sorry I must have missed this. Can you explain further?