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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Arri 65mm digital camera

Arri made the 2nd 65mm camera on the market that no one can own. ? odd.

THE PHANTOM 65, Which has been out in the world for many years now, I personally feel is (was) the king of Digital 65. The moving images including AO sized poster prints from it are staggeringly awesome !!! Not to mention its High speed capabilities of over 140FPS at full RES !
Pretty amazing i thought for a sensor so large.

Sadly this camera has only just been discontinued.
Why?

DATA heavy for one thing. (and I'm not talking heavy like 2.8k ARRI RAW heavy, I'm talking x4 that ) No doubt Arri RAW from the 65 will be equally loaded.
Lens choices are some what limited to say the least, and yes you can rummage around ebay looking for some old 1950's to 70's lenses (Milk bottles I call them) Or rent what's left in the hallowed halls of Panovison.
But ultimately it was discontinued due to Hardly any buyers or users.

So Arri is sort of Second place when it comes to being first. (as usual) I'm sure they have made something better (you'd hope)

With the now discontinued Phantom 65, sort of proves that 65mm Digital sensor capture irrespective of its image awesomeness !!!! and manufacturers logo, as a real world digital capture format, 65mm has more than likely already tripped over and failed before it even started.
The most logical shooters out there will probably tinker with it, test it, pixel peep it, but probably won't use it for much more than that other than saying they have used it... for talk sake mainly.

And yes... Some people with more money then sense will use it. And why not ! 65mm Anamorphic would be the amazing to watch, It's got Chris Nolan written all over it, He has proved that 65mm is cool ! but at the same time proved that only mega budgets with multiple shoot days can handle it can sustain it.

But then again a 19.000.000 million pixel 6k Dragon anamorphic images look amazing too. Even more amazing knowing that these massive images (110meg 16bit per frame uncompressed) are from a camera half the size of a brick ! for only $29k.

Specs on the net say that the sensor on the Arri 65 is 20,000,000 million pixels? is that wrong or right? . With the sensor being 2 to 3x the size of the the Dragon I would have thought it would be 40 or 50 million Pixels. ?

What they do need with a camera this size is a R3D equivalent. As I doubt I'd even be shooting RED if they had chunky Raw files like other Raw capture cameras. R3D is REDs saviour as far as Im concerned.

Anyways, all credit to them. I do look forward to seeing some images from it. Arri's colour sciences are not to be sneezed at ether.

I'm sure the ARRI purists out there are more concerned about when an affordable 4k Alexa is coming out.

Marc Wielage said:
I think the Alexa 65 is more a "statement" project, saying, "we can build this if you really want it." I think in truth, not even 1 out of 100 Hollywood productions will use it, but there will always be the Chris Nolans, the Finchers, the Scorseses, maybe even the Tarantinos who will want the extra mile and go for it. The fact that Arri thought this through and came out with so many 65mm lenses and also have a simultaneous ProRes capture for editing (in addition to Arriraw) is really impressive. But 2.6TB per hour of Arriraw material is going to make D.I.T.'s heads explode...
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Agree
 
German Rebranding

German Rebranding

The latest offer and development from German companies like an Arri or Leica I would simply name it as a sort of

GERMAN REBRANDING

What does it mean?

Both companies recently launched the products that have aim to extremely niche market.

ARRI Alexa 65 (rental only !!!)

Leica M 60 with an extremely clean camera body (without LCD !!!)

Now to explain or get answer in a way what is going on there with both respectful companies is the best just to quote Wikipedia about rebranding terminology to clear what it means:

"Rebranding is a marketing strategy in which a new name, term, symbol, design, or combination thereof is created for an established brand with the intention of developing a new, differentiated identity in the minds of consumers, investors, and competitors. Often, this involves radical changes to a brand's logo, name, image, marketing strategy, and advertising themes. Such changes typically aim to reposition the brand/company, occasionally to distance itself from negative connotations of the previous branding, or to move the brand upmarket; they may also communicate a new message a new board of directors wishes to communicate.

Rebranding can be applied to new products, mature products, or even products still in development. The process can occur intentionally through a deliberate change in strategy or occur unintentionally from unplanned, emergent situations, such as a "Chapter 11 corporate restructuring," "union busting," or "bankruptcy."

LINK >>>>

In the case of Arri Alexa 65 I would describe a new product that made me thinking about a kind of OBESITY.

And in the case of Leica M 60 Edition I would describe a new product that made me thinking about a sort of ANOREXIA.

At the moment nobody can tell us if these two rebranding campaigns will produce success or maybe it could be in a opposite way.

Time will tell...
 
BRANDON JAMESON said:
If all of this "sensor size queen" competition was motivated by purchases by women, trust me the whole size race and the resulting lens conundrum would be pretty pointless and dead in the water from jump.

How's about a 4:3 sensor? Arri has more than proved that it makes very sound business sense to develop.
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Agreed, the one thing sorely missing, and i have been asking for it for a long time, is true anamorphic 4:3 from Red. Not all this S35 shenanigans. I have really no idea why this is. The amount of producers who i have spoken to regarding kit and have used another camera because of this missing from the Red offering is substantial.
 
Recorder crop modes 5-perf 65 mm (Open Gate, 1.78 extraction)
8-perf 35 mm (future)
 
With this ARRI cam being rental only, then naturally, someone is going to make "65mm for the rest of us."

You know, 70mm sensor size, a practical recording medium like REDcode, modularity, compact form, available and accessible plug in play to NLEs, all that kind of stuff.

You know, like RED has already been doing for 8 years.

Wait, maybe RED has already made it. With a set of reasonable priced glass to match. :)

i dunno, makes sense to me.

Another question is:

how is it going to be projected? Digitally? Printed to IMAX film? It's probably more practical for IMAX to stick to film and keep shooting film, maybe much more efficient in the field.

Battistella
 
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Jarred Land said:
heh heh heh.
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I'd say it sounds like the most expensive "heh heh heh" in a long time.

The roadmap has been known for quite some time but I'm still overly excited about what will come, because who knows what's changed.
 
The ALEXA 65 as a scaled up version of the ALEXA XT

The ALEXA 65 as a scaled up version of the ALEXA XT

lenses_title.jpg


http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2009/05/a_rare_tour_of_imax_cameras-2/

Workflow Questions

How do I manage on-set workflow, color management and display?

As a scaled up version of the ALEXA XT, the ALEXA 65 employs the same on-set support with regards to color management and display technology. The ALEXA 65 has two separate HD monitoring outputs and also uses the same Look and CDL functionality as the ALEXA XT.

QUOTE LINK >>>>
 
I'm also a fan of a FULL FRAME 35mm sensor more thant this. Vista Vision is beautiful. 65mm maybe its closer to the theoretical ultimate DSMC concept possible- It would be having both a Hasselblad and a 65mm film camera all in one. However, much of award winning photography, including fashion, is done in FF35 Sensors. I would love to see, for Red's next step- as in the bandwagon I could and would love to keep going on- to go Full Frame, but without compromises: a 8K or the roadmap's tentative 9K camera, Full Frame, fully compatible with all the Full frame glass out there. Yes, as a statement, I understand RED going for a 65 mm camera that people could buy, but a true "revolution" would be to bring the best possible sensor, with Outdoor Print quality resolution for stills, great overall sensibility and Dynamic range, and of course frame rates, to allow for the most versatile as well as creatively flexible tool on the market. And one that would not separate the "elite" from the "indies", something RED has always done commendably. . I can only see this as the first fully fledged and well developed 8k or 9k FF35mm camera.

I'm awaiting now peacefully for my Epic, being upgraded as we speak in Irvine. I will use this camera for at least 3 or more years. It will help me venture on a first ever book plus video project as an independent filmmaker. I'm more than confident about the product, as I was with the Epic MX, which really did change my life. I'm sure the next step will be even more extraordinary!
 
David Mullen ASC said:
Personally it seems that FF35 should be the next leap in sensor size, and there are more lenses to cover that format than 65mm. But as a specialty camera, 65mm sounds cool, would be fun to shoot.
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Exactly my thoughts. To me it would be a much better choice for RED to come out with a FF35 sensor next. There are tons of lenses available so it's something EVERYONE could take advantage of.
 
Tehben Dean said:
Exactly my thoughts. To me it would be a much better choice for RED to come out with a FF35 sensor next. There are tons of lenses available so it's something EVERYONE could take advantage of.
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I don't think RED will skip FF35, this sensor-size makes a lot of sense, not just because of the endless options of glass. But MF on a DSMC-body, with swappable mounts, damn, thats mind-blowing. Lots of cheap old glass is around there, some new glass is probably coming too (that Sony sensor Pentax is using in will probably end up in a few more cameras), rumors about a Canon MF system are in the web for quite a while now too... And maybe there is room to work with some optics to make FF35 lenses usable. It could be worth it, think about lenses like the Zeiss Otus.

There is probably a reason why RED is already playing with DMSC-lens-mounts on a DMSC-body, who knows what the complete story behind this experiment is. :D

I agree to Patrick, we all knew somehow what was planned a few years ago. And thing will have changed to the better for sure, i'm excited to see whats coming. CAN'T WAIT!

Jarred's "he he he" was everything i wanted to read here. :) God i can't wait, altough i know this thing will be out of my reach for quite a while.
 
David Battistella said:
With this ARRI cam being rental only, then naturally, someone is going to make "65mm for the rest of us."

You know, 70mm sensor size, a practical recording medium like REDcode, modularity, compact form, available and accessible plug in play to NLEs, all that kind of stuff.

You know, like RED has already been doing for 8 years.

Wait, maybe RED has already made it. With a set of reasonable priced glass to match. :)

i dunno, makes sense to me.

Another question is:

how is it going to be projected? Digitally? Printed to IMAX film? It's probably more practical for IMAX to stick to film and keep shooting film, maybe much more efficient in the field.

Battistella
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True 65mm is the niche of niche markets. There are way more compromises than advantages by going this route. IMHO the Phantom 65 was never a pretty looking camera.

Everything is slowly shifting to 4K digital projection. 4096 x 2160 from the Alexa 65 is what you'll end up seeing on your local movie theater.
 
David Battistella said:
With this ARRI cam being rental only, then naturally, someone is going to make "65mm for the rest of us."
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I don't think the rest of us can afford the post-production expenses of dealing with files this size. Realistically speaking, very few productions were able to afford 65mm film in the last 40 years, either. It's not just about the costs of the camera; it's about dealing with 2TB per hour of data. Take that all the way through the final stage of post, and I bet it'll be a very slow, arduous path.

It'll be doable for people with vast resources and time, but very daunting to 90% of most filmmakers out there.
 
Yeah, but that's just an interview, imagine an entire feature film, two-three or more camera setup. We really need some fast new HDD technology now. There's a limit to how fast you can backup data on set.
 
Marc Wielage said:
I don't think the rest of us can afford the post-production expenses of dealing with files this size. Realistically speaking, very few productions were able to afford 65mm film in the last 40 years, either. It's not just about the costs of the camera; it's about dealing with 2TB per hour of data. Take that all the way through the final stage of post, and I bet it'll be a very slow, arduous path.

It'll be doable for people with vast resources and time, but very daunting to 90% of most filmmakers out there.
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i think it might be popular for photographers who print large frames. It's the S in the DSMC. Plus you'd ver easily probably be able to capture 6k for a 4k downscale.

The more I think about it the more intriguing it becomes because RED is quite interested in a camera which merges these worlds rather than keeping them divided.

Battistella
 
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Sergio leone enters my mind. .... But not Ron Howard so much (remember far and away?)

battistella
 
I'm just wondering what the first film to use this will be, I think a full frame Dragon would be pretty cool as well but I think you sneer at this camera at your peril, there may be no interest in buying the camera in the rental firms right now but once more DOPs use it I have a feeling they will eventually be selling a few to people like Panavision for example probably not Red numbers or even Alexa numbers but enough interest to make them sell it, after all the more cameras that are out there the more likely glass will be made, kinda like the Alexa studio and Master Anamorphics.
 
This isn't the first rental only camera ARRI has ever released... Not even the first rental only digital camera - anyone ever use the D20?

Seems like the conservative strategy that ARRI likes to employ: rental only, work out the kinks, test the waters, gauge interest, and then 1-2 years from now they will pull this camera back (like the D20), release an update (like the D21), then finally a couple years later release the camera that is nailed down tight to ARRI standards that everyone can buy.

Then everyone can have a 65mm camera tied to a DJI Ronin + exoskeleton to shoot interviews and skateboard videos for the youtubes.
 
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