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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Arri 65mm digital camera

Brian Merlen said:
Going back to my earlier comments, I think a prores option for this camera is not too much to ask for. Or just make it yourself in the vault and trash the originals. At a certain point even bigger productions may not want to deal with these kinds of storage requirements, especially for a 2k delivery..
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Stop trying to be the voice of reason... :0
 
Adrian Jebef said:
If we'd shot Alexa65 we would have had to have at least 100 mags. To buy that many XT Mags you're looking at over half a million dollars.
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Not a problem on a $100M blockbuster, which is what I think the Alexa 65 is positioned for. And I bet there will be enterprising rental companies that will rent you the mags for X number of months, at a cost lower than actually buying that much storage. Dailies & editing drives and backups, you'll have to pay for.

I feel sorrier for post houses, particularly if they get slammed with an Alexa 65 project while doing two or three other HD or 4K projects. The potential network issues for moving and backing up that much data would swamp any facility I know of.
 
Marc Wielage said:
Not a problem on a $100M blockbuster, which is what I think the Alexa 65 is positioned for. And I bet there will be enterprising rental companies that will rent you the mags for X number of months, at a cost lower than actually buying that much storage. Dailies & editing drives and backups, you'll have to pay for.

I feel sorrier for post houses, particularly if they get slammed with an Alexa 65 project while doing two or three other HD or 4K projects. The potential network issues for moving and backing up that much data would swamp any facility I know of.
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Many post houses still choke on Arriraw as it is. They'll have to actually update their pipelines, finally.
 
were just gonna dnxhd36 it anyway guys and reconform later... ps LOL at Glens comment!!!
 
Brian Merlen said:
Going back to my earlier comments, I think a prores option for this camera is not too much to ask for. Or just make it yourself in the vault and trash the originals. At a certain point even bigger productions may not want to deal with these kinds of storage requirements, especially for a 2k delivery..
Click to expand...


Did you read Adrian's comment(s) and rental pricing guestimate ?

Trashing originals and shooting Prores in this scenario is in contradictive priorites with a $10k per day camera rental package and a project which motivates it.
 
3 Petabytes per copy of a film seems a little excessive.. and according to CSC themselves rates are not yet established (and no availability until Nov as well) so I am hopeful it may come in a little cheaper but no one has any knowledge of the pricing currently (that is accurate at least, so its really anyones guess). I personally think some projects might want the sensor size without the massive storage costs simply for the 65mm aesthetic, maybe I am completely wrong on this. Wouldn't be the first time... :)

I have worked with the Alexa and Red a lot professionally but you'd be surprised how many non raw jobs I do where the DP wants it baked it cuz they know they have it the way they want it, or for media storage costs siding against raw is a budgetary constraint (but they still want a s35 look and the ability to name drop the high end model cameras despite not even saving the raw files).. Even on Phantom jobs sometimes people play out to recorders and ditch the cine files. The point is there are ways to manage the data but yes its a half assed approach compared to keeping your master files... We are both in agreement on that one..


Hrvoje Simic said:
Did you read Adrian's comment(s) and rental pricing guestimate ?

Trashing originals and shooting Prores in this scenario is in contradictive priorites with a $10k per day camera rental package and a project which motivates it.
Click to expand...
 
Hrvoje Simic said:
Did you read Adrian's comment(s) and rental pricing guestimate ?

Trashing originals and shooting Prores in this scenario is in contradictive priorites with a $10k per day camera rental package and a project which motivates it.
Click to expand...

10 days = 100K... this is intense. And this camera will rent for 100s and 100s of days before it is ever released for sale, guaranteed... genius business model, as they know they have clients who will use it. They only need to make 20 of them, and they turn a profit.
 
Brian Merlen said:

I personally think some projects might want the sensor size without the massive storage costs simply for the 65mm aesthetic, maybe I am completely wrong on this. Wouldn't be the first time... :)
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That's understandable, but if the image acquisition approach demands those resources, one might as well utilize its potential.
With Prores UHD route data rates are still in a "far from practical" ball-and-chain type of speed category and with that route one would be loosing the full potential of the imaging system (not just resolution but "thickness") while paying top dollar for it AND adapting the production factors for it anyway.

If that package is covered by budget, covering solutions like Vault or Clipster should not be a problem.

Brian Merlen said:
I have worked with the Alexa and Red a lot professionally but you'd be surprised how many non raw jobs I do where the DP wants it baked it cuz they know they have it the way they want it, or for media storage costs siding against raw is a budgetary constraint (but they still want a s35 look and the ability to name drop the high end model cameras despite not even saving the raw files).. Even on Phantom jobs sometimes people play out to recorders and ditch the cine files. The point is there are ways to manage the data but yes its a half assed approach compared to keeping your master files... We are both in agreement on that one..
Click to expand...

Similar experiences here so I can relate.
It would be interesting to see if there is or will be scaled 2K feed out of the camera.
 
Marc Wielage said:
If they do, clients will have to pay for it.
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with offline online workflows you can get by at the post house...the colorist is who is going to hate you the most if s/he does the reconforms lol!

ps going back to the hyper clarity argument annoying talent with their body images...(forget if that was this thread or the other, maybe both)

i think it would be really delightful in vidoes like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xljA6zJn4I

cuz sometimes you want all those outer beauty details to shine :p lmfao
 
Marc Wielage said:
I feel sorrier for post houses, particularly if they get slammed with an Alexa 65 project while doing two or three other HD or 4K projects. The potential network issues for moving and backing up that much data would swamp any facility I know of.
Click to expand...

Gus Sacks said:
Many post houses still choke on Arriraw as it is. They'll have to actually update their pipelines, finally.
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Computer technology is the only technology I know of which is overestimated and underestimated simultaneously. :-)
 
The biggest factor in terms of cost is the amount of data the A65 is capable of generating. Especially on a long-form project. Offloading, verifying, QC, copies, archives, etc is what will cripple any budget. If you're simply shooting VFX plates I'm sure it can be quite manageable but once you start shooting full scenes and sequences the Post Pipe needs to be enlarged by a factor of 3 or more. It's all about scale. This issue of scale is precisely why most well-budgeted Features have opted on a 2K finish vs. a 4K finish. It's simply too expensive. But we are getting there...

BTW: I'm excited about the A65. Can't wait to see it on a proper 4K projector. And I'm a fan of a completely uncompressed workflow. It can be done. Easier than most will admit.
 
Adrian Jebef said:
And I'm a fan of a completely uncompressed workflow. It can be done. Easier than most will admit.
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I don't see a lot of people shooting uncompressed Red footage around here. I don't think it's necessary; I think even 5:1 compression winds up being "virtually" lossless in terms of what you really lose in the real world. If you were bombarded with 300 hours of 65mm digital footage to edit, copy, transport, backup, color correct, send to visual effects, and deliver, I think you'd have a different feeling about it.

"Easy" is a relative term, and don't forget that time and money affect everybody​, even $200M productions.
 
Speedier media comes all the time. Bigger, too.
You cannot shoot RED uncompressed (you can shoot uncompressed RGB through the broadcastmodule to an external recorder, but that ain't RAW)

But I usually shoot at the lowest compression available.
 
Shooting 10:1 on Dragon is a blessing.

I've got 3 hours of backup to do every day after a usual documentry shoot. If you shoot uncompressed it would mean 30 hours of backup. Kind of difficult to squeeze this in a 24h day!

I love R3D.

Pat
 
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