Are You Guys Kidding??

[Bob Gundu]

Did you watch the video on the red website? The meizeler module uses RED mini mags, a new type of recording media. We can not assume the proxy module uses the same media.

David

Jarred hinted that the miniMags will show up in new product other than the MM. My guess was this new proxy module.

 

[Bob Gundu]

I will also go on record and say that I hate SD cards with a passion. I have a pile of cracked cards that serve no purpose other than to make my cry when I think how much money I've spent on them. The Panasonic P2 cards and the REDMags are expensive but they are built to last. Im sure the MiniMags will be just as tough.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Red only developed capable ASICs as part of the Epic program though, right?

True, the ASICs came about to enable EPIC and a host of other products. I wouldn't say they "only developed" them. EPIC would not exist without them, nor would REDRAY several other things. Anyway, the point is that they do exist now.

Did the R1 have playback @ launch? It supports Jake's theory if true.

It was a specified feature of the camera since before it launched. I don't recall which build enabled playback, it wasn't implemented on the RED One at launch, but it had it within a few months. I believe it was in build 10 or 11 of the R1 firmware, but I'm a bit fuzzy on that. And for a while we did not have audio playback on camera -- I think that was build 14 or 15. Build 16 was the monumental image quality build. Don't think this had anything to do with any playback conspiracy, it was a matter of just getting all the features enabled. I'm 90% sure that Build 13 had playback and was released in January '08 -- RED had just finished retrofitting the first 100 cameras as "X" cameras with the upgraded OLPF. They were just starting full production and delivery.

Only a month before, we were testing build 9, and possibly build 10, at Gibby's LART testing event. Only one of the cameras there had been retrofitted with the new OLPF at that time. RED had not even started shipping RED Drives to record to....

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Jarred hinted that the miniMags will show up in new product other than the MM. My guess was this new proxy module.

Yep. We'll obviously need a mini-mag reader. I'd like to see a mini-mag to full size mag adapter seeing how I already have 4 REDMAG readers...

Meizler uses them. I can see another smaller proxy module headed our way. And to clarify, I do see a market for it. I know lots of people and workflows can benefit from it. My points earlier in this thread are just that many of us don't need to work that way anymore and there are some real advantages to avoiding offline/ proxy workflows where you can. Anyway, don't wish to derail this any further. There are a bazillion different ways to approach workflow and a good reason to justify nearly every one of those ways. The one constant I do see though is that far too many people are often locked into the past or old ways of doing things and often don't realize that they're making life a lot harder than it has to be. Oh well, to each their own.

I'm sure there are other uses as well. Going back to the mini to full-size adapter. The mini-mags, if significantly cheaper, would be a great way to store camera presets, looks, black-shadings, firmware, etc.. Without keeping copies of it on standard REDMAGs or taking the time to copy them over to a standard REDMAG from a computer -- trivial when you're cycling and offloading media anyway, but it's still a huge deal to some people.

I agree with Bob. SD cards suck. CF cards are much better -- they're more robust, but still not great. The REDMAGs are nice and sturdy, more so than P2 cards. RED did a good job here... I just wish they would hurry up and get cheaper!

 

[David Battistella]

The mini-mags, if significantly cheaper, would be a great way to store camera presets, looks, black-shadings, firmware, etc.. Without keeping copies of it on standard REDMAGs or taking the time to copy them over to a standard REDMAG from a computer -- trivial when you're cycling and offloading media anyway, but it's still a huge deal to some people.

... I just wish they would hurry up and get cheaper!

i suspect you'd have to change out a mini mag once at lunch and once at the end of the day, I'm sure there will be an adapter or something like a little mini mag reader that goes into the station setup.

i still own 10 cf cards that were used during the filming of Ché. They have served me well and now serve my Nikon.

David

@bob, I should have hooked you up with one of my custom film can cf holders, none of your cards would have been destroyed. The red SSD cards are tanks!

 

[Scott Crawley]

True, the ASICs came about to enable EPIC and a host of other products. I wouldn't say they "only developed" them. EPIC would not exist without them, nor would REDRAY several other things. Anyway, the point is that they do exist now.

I stated "only developed as part of the Epic program" simply an expression used to indicate that it is something that "only just recently" occurred. When Red needed a rocket, their own ASICs didn't exist. It wasn't to suggest any kind of conspiracy. Sorry if I was unclear.

Pardon my ignorance but was playback enabled via firmware only or was a hardware upgrade required as well? Do Mysterium R1's have playback? Did Red have the hardware to do accelerated debayer at the time and if so, why wouldn't they have made their own Rocket? Might it have been a timing issue... Availability or cost effectiveness of parts?

It's all way out of my depth, but an intriguing puzzle none the less.

As you state, they have the stuff now and I would bet they are eager to provide a newer solution.

 

[Erich Roland]

The great thing about RED is, you can use is for all kinds of projects(high end cinema, documentary, eng, multicam, EFP, etc), not strictly high end cinema. And if red claims they listen, why not create something people are crying for? Why does that take 3 years? I must be painful for RED to acknowledge, the C300, Alexa, and F5/F55 are having a lot of points which are just plain better than the current Epic situation.
RED never led the game in terms of usability, but did in image quality. Now the competition is catching up, image quality (for alot of projects) is getting more and more equal, even so to a point that other stuff begins to way heavier in the choice of which camera to shoot (no fan noise, low power consumption, multiple codec options, ergonomic design, built in ND, weight of camera etc)

And that is something RED really should learn from competition. The competetion learned alot from RED and is striking back with above points, now it's time for RED to come with an answer, and they have to do it fast.

I also think as Jarred says they are a small company, it would be much better to focus on making the best possible camera instead of making a projector, playback system, battery options, rails etc. Make what is REALLY needed and requested by most epic shooters right now...

I agree with Max on all points. Red should provide what the professional industry needs.... and that is options. Sony and the F55/F5 entry has planted its stake squarely in the middle with options (that Pro's need) and reasonable prices. These new Sony products may very well take a big bite out of the market place until the next new game changer comes out. With out a "deliverable format" proxy modual for Red or a leap/change in post workflow's I suspect Red will be left to the elite for this round even with fantastic new sensor. But then... things do change fast these days.

 

[Peter Proniewicz-Brooks]

I agree with Max on all points. Red should provide what the professional industry needs.... and that is options. Sony and the F55/F5 entry has planted its stake squarely in the middle with options (that Pro's need) and reasonable prices. These new Sony products may very well take a big bite out of the market place until the next new game changer comes out. With out a "deliverable format" proxy modual for Red or a leap/change in post workflow's I suspect Red will be left to the elite for this round even with fantastic new sensor. But then... things do change fast these days.

And 2 Proxy capable modules are coming.

THe projector and set top box are also important for the take up of RED cameras, a 4+k camera is a lot more desirable if 4k output is available and even vaguely affordable.

 

[Eric Haase]

EVen if there were a prores/dnx module I will still shoot Raw and transcode for MOST of the project I shoot. I do my own dailies grading..right AFTER the shoot so I can get what I want out of the footage and not worry about tweaking settings and grading on set in between takes or during lunch. The investment in a MacBookPro, Sonnet, Rocket, Tangent Wave, and Flanders 24" monitor is likely a bit more than the price of any proxy module but I will always be achieving the look I want because I am doing it myself in a controlled environment. I deliver graded dailies that match all the way around, take to take, setup to setup. There are rarely instances where a client cannot wait a couple hours to walk away with the footage. I understand the need by some for a module and think RED should make a simple one but for me the idea that I can have the dailies look EXACTLY like I imagine is amazing. This is what I've wished for since I started shooting film and was writing notes to colorists, or shooting digital stills and photoshopping them to relay my color intention.

 

[Bob Gundu]

EVen if there were a prores/dnx module I will still shoot Raw and transcode for MOST of the project I shoot. I do my own dailies grading..right AFTER the shoot so I can get what I want out of the footage and not worry about tweaking settings and grading on set in between takes or during lunch. The investment in a MacBookPro, Sonnet, Rocket, Tangent Wave, and Flanders 24" monitor is likely a bit more than the price of any proxy module but I will always be achieving the look I want because I am doing it myself in a controlled environment. I deliver graded dailies that match all the way around, take to take, setup to setup. There are rarely instances where a client cannot wait a couple hours to walk away with the footage. I understand the need by some for a module and think RED should make a simple one but for me the idea that I can have the dailies look EXACTLY like I imagine is amazing. This is what I've wished for since I started shooting film and was writing notes to colorists, or shooting digital stills and photoshopping them to relay my color intention.

I'm in the same mindset as you. I know most don't want to take the time to do this but doing it this way gives me peace of mind as there is less for the client to mess up.