Are the DIT's days numbered?

[Jay Gannon]

On a slightly related note: Researching for my van:
I gotta get me one of these:
http://www.alesis.com/imultimix9r

Another thing we have/are/will look into is buying a 3ton (or smaller in the i.e. Ford Econoline, US we don't get them out here much) ex OBU van like this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/8-metre-Coach...sional_RL&hash=item2a05f8bf3c#ht_15095wt_1167
And converting it. Not on our cards at the moment but definitly to be considered.

 

[J. Bernard Vallon]

Unless the location absolutely requires it, the laptop should only be for a backup.

You can build a pretty stellar station out of a laptop.

http://maxxdigital.com/shop/index.php?cPath=153

The real issue is throughput. A two day commercial with three shots on the docket for the whole day, isn't going to produce more than 40gb of footage per day, and my laptop station can securely back up about 150gb in one day to 4 locations via esata.

I can also close the lid on my pelican case, grab my UPS and be out the door in 10 minutes.

That said, I like my macpro tower better.

 

[Jay Gannon]

Yep i was probably a little too forceful, but I've arrived as the replacement DIT a few times now where the previous one was a bloke with a Macbook and a Cardreader.

Laptops have their place in certain shoots and at certain budgets. However if its your full-time job you should be able to provide either a mobile station, a card or a Mac Pro system depending on whats suitable. Even saying that I've been known to show up with MacPro anyway to indie shoots that only could afford a more basic service. Its a give and take.

 

[Curran Giddens]

I'm still building my cart but I do plan on having either 2 or 4 100AH batteries hooked up to my Xantrex inverter.

http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/240/p/1/pt/30/product.asp

I think the best part about my cart is the ability to easily be taken apart and carried up a flight of stairs by one person.

"a super cool thing would be a DIT Bus/Truck....build into the back of the car, powered by 4 car batteries or so...then you are mobile, fast and dont need to stress the light department to give you power."

3 Motorhome batteries (300AH) is enough with a 3K inverter. Gets about 10hrs running a Big Foot trolley (rollon- rolloff) containing: Mac Tower/Rocket / 16TB RAID / 3K UPS / 42" P11 Plasma

I also have 1 2K genny silent genny for longer duration shoots. Multiple locations and all you need to do is flick a switch.

I've kitted 2 transporters like this for on location dailies.

Cheers

 

[Jordan Livingston]

I think it's a bit like the way the role of assistant editor has changed...

It's funny you should say that, because my first 'real' job in the film industry was as an assistant editor. As I became more experienced with the technology, and made it my business to keep up with the latest changes, I was eventually able to transition into the roles of 'online editor' and later into 'postproduction supervisor.'

This combined with my parallel forays into the camera department as an occasional operator / assistant gave me a unique blend of skills and experiences that are ideal for a DIT. The position didn't really formally exist when I just started naturally falling into it; the job was organically born out of the convergence of digital tools and blurring production / post workflows.

The point is, even an assistant editor (or somebody relatively low on the totem pole, such as I was), can benefit from rapidly evolving technologies and changes in workflows. Follow the trends and become an expert in the state of the art and you will be working healthily regardless of what acronym they call you.

- Jordan

 

[Tony Lorentzen]

Hehe I am actually looking into just that at the moment. Kitting out a VW Transporter as the ultimate DIT station, including a small grading room etc.

Let's revive this (great) thread. How's the VW Transporter coming along, Jay? Mine's getting a 330 Ah battery-system installed next week for a feature in Sept.

 

[Jay Gannon]

Let's revive this (great) thread. How's the VW Transporter coming along, Jay? Mine's getting a 330 Ah battery-system installed next week for a feature in Sept.

Gave up and sold it! Getting a sprinter instead, I was really looking for something with more space in it to be comfortable for 2 people to do a days work in it.

 

[Chris Ratledge]

I can teach a clapper loader in five minutes how to download Red footage with Shot Put. But it would take days to teach a DIT how to do clapper loader work.

I have no doubt about the former, but after working for years as an AC, I don't understand the latter statement. How could this also not be accomplished in a very short time?

.... No you cant teach someone data management in 5 minutes. ...You cant teach the workflow design and backup management, you can't teach the storage management and hardware choice in 5 minutes.
A DIT is not any guy with a Macbook and a card reader...

I understand your frustration, but it seems like you're partly arguing different things. All I thought he said was that he could easily and quickly train someone to download footage with a laptop and Shotput. I think that's a pretty fair statement, and in fact not at all much more complex than having them drag-n-drop. It just doesn't resemble your experience and skill level. Much of what you listed that can't be taught in 5 minutes, you're absolutely right about that, but it doesn't apply to his example; all those decisions have been made already by someone else. To honestly refer to the example he laid out as a DIT is farce, as is to assume it constitutes the whole of data management complexity. You are absolutely right here again.

Can you Explain Further? You want to fire someone who is using a Macbook Pro with a firewire 800 card reader if they are doing Data Management? I just want to hear what someone who is being asked to do data management / DIT work on a 2 day commercial is supposed to bring to the table if they haven't worked with the Producers and DP who hired him and there was no previous discussion about a more robust workflow or process in advance. (Think Night before the shoot, and you get called to do data management on a Commercial to be shot on Red for $350/day, zero Prep, zero need for preset looks or LUT management.)

Except for the difference of my gig being one day, this pretty much mirrors a not-so-long-ago data gig of mine with scary resemblance. Could it possibly be, that this type of scenario is not only commonplace, but more or less typical and expected, especially in smaller markets centered on commercial production? :emote_22_yikes:

like always, on big budget shows you will have a DIT for a very long time...this wil be hopefully gone in 3-4 years..

....on small budget and indieshows it will go away faster than kryptonite killing superman

I for one certainly hope not, and isn't your last statement the reality already?

 

[Sebastian Gross]

...

...

That wont happen. Trust me on that one.

it just did: http://www.marvintech.com/

i just saw a presentation of it and it is basically nothing more than a RAID with a web-based GUI, 2 LTO-3 drives, a dvd-burner and card readers.

you customize the job via web gui plug your red CF in and it copies the data with checksum, backs it up on LTO, creates dailies on a dvd and transcodes the data to .mxf (cuz it runs on pc).

don't get me wrong, i totally dont like the "it does it by itself"- structure but a time moves on theses technologies will.

but to be honest i think a DIT is way more than a data wrangler - unfortunatley its position is not as well defined as it maybe should be.

a DIT imho is a very specialized x-platform-skilled, stuffed with knowledge kinda guy, which everyone likes to be around when a problem with the "holy cow" arises.

 

[Tony Lorentzen]

Gave up and sold it! Getting a sprinter instead, I was really looking for something with more space in it to be comfortable for 2 people to do a days work in it.

I have been looking at the Sprinter too, but it's just too damn expensive here in Denmark (we have a 180% registration fee for vehicles and ridiculous road fees for heavy vehicles). Also - parking that thing here in the city would somewhat of a hassle. So - for now at least - I'm going with the Transport which is working fine for my use and what the clients want to pay for here

I did find a lot of inspiration from this guy's van, however: http://digitalcapturesystems.com/the-van.php

 

[Jay Gannon]

it just did: http://www.marvintech.com/

i just saw a presentation of it and it is basically nothing more than a RAID with a web-based GUI, 2 LTO-3 drives, a dvd-burner and card readers.

you customize the job via web gui plug your red CF in and it copies the data with checksum, backs it up on LTO, creates dailies on a dvd and transcodes the data to .mxf (cuz it runs on pc).

don't get me wrong, i totally dont like the "it does it by itself"- structure but a time moves on theses technologies will.

but to be honest i think a DIT is way more than a data wrangler - unfortunatley its position is not as well defined as it maybe should be.

a DIT imho is a very specialized x-platform-skilled, stuffed with knowledge kinda guy, which everyone likes to be around when a problem with the "holy cow" arises.

I am in favor of devices such as this........ to be used by a DIT =) Because they are great, until they break or go wrong which will happen.

 

[Jay Gannon]

I have been looking at the Sprinter too, but it's just too damn expensive here in Denmark (we have a 180% registration fee for vehicles and ridiculous road fees for heavy vehicles). Also - parking that thing here in the city would somewhat of a hassle. So - for now at least - I'm going with the Transport which is working fine for my use and what the clients want to pay for here

I did find a lot of inspiration from this guy's van, however: http://digitalcapturesystems.com/the-van.php

I probably would have kept going with it if I was city bound, but I live in the countryside and have the space, I have almost organised the vehicle, I am getting a ex-uk police forces sprinter which already has a lot of work done that I would have considered doing anyway. Upgraded suspension, a (prisoner) gear cage in the back, heater+AC etc. Will post pics when I get them.

 

[Brian Petrie]

...in Denmark (we have a 180% registration fee for vehicles and ridiculous road fees for heavy vehicles...

Damn, and I thought my 600 a year was a lot for registration....:blink:

 

[Jason Wingrove]

they are if your an idiot
j

 

[Jeff Brown]

I have to number the DITs days - 3 out today, 4 out tomorrow, 3 on thursday etc...

All offering on set lab service - transcoding for editorial with one light grade/sunk sound and streamed ipad dailies (For RED, Alexa, Canon etc)

If anything is numbered it's the term DIT which is far too vague and in my market has become far too confused with a loaders/2nd AC position.

 

[Russell_Branch]

it just did: http://www.marvintech.com/

i just saw a presentation of it and it is basically nothing more than a RAID with a web-based GUI, 2 LTO-3 drives, a dvd-burner and card readers.

you customize the job via web gui plug your red CF in and it copies the data with checksum, backs it up on LTO, creates dailies on a dvd and transcodes the data to .mxf (cuz it runs on pc).

don't get me wrong, i totally dont like the "it does it by itself"- structure but a time moves on theses technologies will.

but to be honest i think a DIT is way more than a data wrangler - unfortunatley its position is not as well defined as it maybe should be.

a DIT imho is a very specialized x-platform-skilled, stuffed with knowledge kinda guy, which everyone likes to be around when a problem with the "holy cow" arises.

Hi Sebastian - yes, an interesting thread! Marvin won't replace a DIT, but it will allow him/her to get on with the important stuff and not have to worry about hunching over a laptop dragging and dropping files - and it will keep the insurance companies happy because of the manner in which it backs everything up.

In my opinion there are still way too many digital pathways and options for a DIT to be replaced and the key word is "Imaging" - eg setting up and maintaining the camera; supervising the data assets; applying "looks" via a quick grade or a predetermined LUT; setting up the viewing monitors; advising (or creating) colour/image management workflows from pre-production through to post... so Marvin helps where it can

By the way, we've now measured our data throughput and we're automatically processing between 40 and 50 GB per hour, depending on the power of the processor. (4k r3d, transcoded to 35MBs DNxHD at half res good for offline; 2 x LTO3 fully verified copies, 1 x r3d copy verified to Raid 5, 1 x offline copy to external hard drive)

cheers

Russell Branch
Sales Manager
Marvin Technologies Ltd
russell@marvintech.com

 

[Jay Gannon]

Russell its about time that we stop having to custom build rigs and can just hand over cash to you guys and get a nice rig prebuilt. Particularly for shipping the Marvin looks good, have you any testing done on shock ratings etc

 

[Russell_Branch]

Russell its about time that we stop having to custom build rigs and can just hand over cash to you guys and get a nice rig prebuilt. Particularly for shipping the Marvin looks good, have you any testing done on shock ratings etc

HI Jay,

to shock test, we'd have to test to destruction (else we'd never know when it broke) and since we're basically pre-revenue we can't afford to do that yet.
We've built them pretty solidly and, to tell the truth, the automated handling they go through from FedEx/UPS etc is probably as harsh as anything they'll be put through on set (remember, they ARE computer systems, not battleships )
They shouldn't be used "on the move" - this screws up the LTO drive mechanisms - but I've schlepped my demo unit all over Europe by car, plane, train and hand cart, and not had any mechanical issues as yet.
If you'll be at IBC, come look us up in hall 13. If not, drop me an e-mail and I'll send you some pricing info.

kind regards

Russell
Practising Safe Capture - with Marvin
russell@marvintech.com

 

[Sebastian Gross]

I am in favor of devices such as this........ to be used by a DIT =) Because they are great, until they break or go wrong which will happen.

i totally get the point and as a quick reaction i might agree.

but further down the road i keep on thinking that machines like this have to be inroduced at a certain point in time to see when, how and why they crash so we can constantly improve them (sounds familiar?).

backing up data is of course not as easy as scratching your nose and that's why you have to be skilled enough - either to set up your own workstation (which is inevitable these digi-days..) or operate one that has been designed for this purpose.

an old story.. just like learning how to drive a car.
y.o.u.'.v.e. g.o.t. t.o. l.e.ar.n.

i will definitely mind-bookmark this technology to see its improvement.
because sooner than later it'll be somewhat of a standard on set.

as a matter of fact all these tools we so quickly have access too these days need to be checked, to be learned about, tested to their limits, in some cases standardized to fully comprehend what we are capable of. because power is nothing without control.

 

[Jay Gannon]

Just for anyone else looking into the Marvin kit, (Hope you don't mind) I checked out Russell's history and he comes from a really solid engineering background in companies we would all recognize in film and tv, normally I am reticent to consider a start-up but it looks promising.

No affiliation etc only heard of the product a few days ago