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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Apple's announcement...

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OT:

Concerning the stickers:
I wanted to order 3 stickers and get +76$ shipping?!
I mean ok the 200$ for a Cam+Accessories is a lot of money, but this...
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
Professional means being able to plan your hardware rollouts on your own time-frame not someone else's. It doesn't matter if Apple releases a computer "someday". Without being able to reliably predict and anticipate upgrades *when needed* Apple's approach is already dead.

If you need new computers today, you need new computers today. You should never put your own business at the mercy of another company when there are equal or better alternatives that don't dictate your schedule. We're ordering 5 new computers today or tomorrow. 1/3rd the price of a mac pro and just as fast--using the latest chipsets and hardware. An Intel Xeon is an Intel Xeon. An i7 is an i7. There's no reason to wait 5 years for a brushed metal case and out of date chips.


Steve jobs had 2 years to update the mac pro. Look how long Apple stubbornly stuck to PowerPC long after it was dramatically slower than Intel. Look how Apple still has inferior graphics chip options even though programs like Premiere are heavily using GPUs. They've never really cared.

Steve Jobs killed Shake. The most popular professional compositing application on earth. They've never cared.
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Well said, Gavin. I've been waiting a long time for a new Mac Pro, just because migrating away from the Apple ecosystem is a big headache.
But I know that my work and business have suffered some in the meantime, due to longer render times, decreased productivity, etc.

I'm quite happy to be moving toward a more open platform, and testing the waters of Windows' latest offering...
 
I used to work at a company that built editing machines. I would always have the newest and fastest box. Problem was the box didn't always work. Not always fun being on the bleeding edge. I am going to add memory and a new graphics card to my Mac Pro tower and see how it handles CS6. My next computer most likely will not be a Mac. Final Cut drove me to Mac. Now I am phasing it out, so I no longer need to have a Mac, but will buy one if they are the best value. Must say I have loved my Mac Pro Laptop, just starting to miss the latest connections.
 
Benedict Heinzl said:
OT:

Concerning the stickers:
I wanted to order 3 stickers and get +76$ shipping?!
I mean ok the 200$ for a Cam+Accessories is a lot of money, but this...
Click to expand...

if you can find cheaper shipping, i'll order them for you here and re-ship to you... assuming you cover costs :)
 
Jarred Land said:
heh heh love you Shawn... now you know just how much you putting that sticker there means to us.

Remember.. true story... Jim and I used to hand make every sticker we sold on RED.com while we were waiting for the Red One to show up.

Seriously.

He would line the big roll of 3m paper on the plotter and print each one out and then cut each one and i would laminate them, we would do that in the middle of the night, each and every week as we waited for some code to cook or some hardware to come out of the oven. Pretty Crazy.

So all of you that have those old stickers, there was ALOT of love put into each and every one of them.
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LOVE THIS (!)
 
Taylor F. said:
Well said, Gavin. I've been waiting a long time for a new Mac Pro, just because migrating away from the Apple ecosystem is a big headache.
But I know that my work and business have suffered some in the meantime, due to longer render times, decreased productivity, etc.
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100% agree with both Taylor and Gavin. When I walk into a shop and only see mac's I start "worrying", and instantly start restricting the type of jobs that shop will get.

What I like to see is a few macs, bunch of windows machines hooked to a windows farm, then that is hooked to a linux grid. For example, I know a colorist can use a mac portable, but I get a better "comfort level" to see a colorist with a linux workstation, with calibrated screens (multiple ... including a projector). A colorist like that I don't have to worry about as the job start's becoming almost vfx with complex trackers, since I know what ever is thrown at them they can problem solve out of it.
 
Answer ...

Answer ...

Jannard said:
Sorry for your experience... I have had just the opposite. I have had 28 years of a romance with Apple. That's why this moment in time matters to me.

Every company is at a crossroads every year, maybe every few months. This is especially true with a technology company.

You either measure up or you fall... no matter how big you are "last year". RED is no different.

In this business you have to pay attention. Carefully. Or you lose.

My bet is that Apple will pay attention. They have too much to lose if they don't.

Jim
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Clinging to emails that promise a product release next year is pretty desperate.

"But she still loves me! She told me so!" Or at least she allegedly told Franz.

Time to buy a PC...
 
Anyone noticed that RED have used the word Retina (retinae, the plural to be precise) before Apple in a video a couple years ago?

http://vimeo.com/3613373



Please note that in this clip all the contents are obsolete.
 
PatrickFaith said:
When I walk into a shop and only see mac's I start "worrying", and instantly start restricting the type of jobs that shop will get. What I like to see is a few macs, bunch of windows machines hooked to a windows farm, then that is hooked to a linux grid.
Click to expand...

Wow. I find your post fascinating...unfortunately not in the good way.

You should check out the VFX company Luma Pictures (http://lumapictures.com) in Santa Monica, CA. Their shop is unique in the industry in that it's based around off-the-shelf applications and runs primarily on Macs. This was a very deliberate decision according to the founders. I don't know for sure but they more than likely have a few Windows machines lying around and probably use a Linux based render farm.

Below are some pics of their workspace. In addition, you can see an impressive list of movies they've worked on here: http://lumapictures.com/projects (I'm sure a few of the movies will be of interest to RED users).

10150421301097183.jpg
10150421301152183.jpg


I have no idea what type of work you do or the complexity and resources required to do it. I do, however, know the type of work they do and what that entails. I can't imagine that your computational needs would be greater than theirs.

Perhaps I just don't know any better but, in my mind, the current Mac Pro is a very versatile and powerful computer. It's not THE most powerful computer you can buy but it never is - that's not Apple's game and the new Mac Pros aren't likely to change that.

It runs OSX, Windows and Linux. It's expandable enough for most pro users (barely expandable still counts) and there are options for those who need more.

It runs powerhouse software like a champ - Maya, Nuke, Houdini, Mocha, CS6, Media Composer, ProTools, Smoke, Resolve, Scratch, PFTrack, etc. And those are just a few of the many that are written for OSX, let alone apps running on Windows and Linux.

People will like what they like. But, if they somehow feel they can't deliver because they're using a Mac Pro from 2010, in the vast majority of cases, the computers are probably not the problem.
 
Brian Boyer said:
Wow. I find your post fascinating...unfortunately not in the good way.

You should check out the VFX company Luma Pictures (http://lumapictures.com) in Santa Monica, CA. Their shop is unique in the industry in that it's based around off-the-shelf applications and runs primarily on Macs. This was a very deliberate decision according to the founders. I don't know for sure but they more than likely have a few Windows machines lying around and probably use a Linux based render farm.
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Cool place, but I'm assuming they have linux render farms that I can't see. BTW ... thing i LOVE to see in a shop is people doing VFX in python, and their work on PYMEL is very cool. I think there is a difference in a shop that uses Mac's because they want to, vs a shop where people are afraid to use linux/windows. I'm perty sure the PYMEL guys are not afraid of linux ;)
 
Brian, I'm in VFX and use every single one of the applications you mentioned. Everyone is free to make their own choices. For this second right now, and likely moving well on into the next year - I would not buy a mac to run these applications. I would recommend studios have some macs around for design work, among other things. But once you're in any of those applications it's all the same and it doesn't matter... except performance. Windows is running most of those at the same speed or faster, not to mention that you can get vastly superior performance options at a vastly smaller price when configuring a PC. If you want to run OSX, go ahead and do it. But the hardware offerings aren't up to snuff, for me. Yeah, course you could always get some stuff done... but why be foolish about it? If you need a new machine now, you need to go PC. You're not locked in a black hole... whenever Apple delivers, I'm sure they'll still let you buy one.

Now, if you wanna talk about the new MBP, that thing is beautiful and I'll get one. Why? Because it's the best laptop out there. Can't say the same thing about the rest of the line. Sorry, but let's be real.

This Apple/Windows rhetoric is stale and highly irritating. It doesn't matter what you're using, so get on with it...
 
paulherrin said:
Brian, I'm in VFX and use every single one of the applications you mentioned. Everyone is free to make their own choices. For this second right now, and likely moving well on into the next year - I would not buy a mac to run these applications. I would recommend studios have some macs around for design work, among other things. But once you're in any of those applications it's all the same and it doesn't matter... except performance. Windows is running most of those at the same speed or faster, not to mention that you can get vastly superior performance options at a vastly smaller price when configuring a PC. If you want to run OSX, go ahead and do it. But the hardware offerings aren't up to snuff, for me. Yeah, course you could always get some stuff done... but why be foolish about it? If you need a new machine now, you need to go PC. You're not locked in a black hole... whenever Apple delivers, I'm sure they'll still let you buy one.

Now, if you wanna talk about the new MBP, that thing is beautiful and I'll get one. Why? Because it's the best laptop out there. Can't say the same thing about the rest of the line. Sorry, but let's be real.

This Apple/Windows rhetoric is stale and highly irritating. It doesn't matter what you're using, so get on with it...
Click to expand...

Please price me a 12 core 3.0 PC cheaper than $3500. Where?
 
Maybe this is the year I give up computers, get off the grid..... :-)
 
paulherrin said:
Brian, I'm in VFX and use every single one of the applications you mentioned. Everyone is free to make their own choices. For this second right now, and likely moving well on into the next year - I would not buy a mac to run these applications. I would recommend studios have some macs around for design work, among other things. But once you're in any of those applications it's all the same and it doesn't matter... except performance. Windows is running most of those at the same speed or faster, not to mention that you can get vastly superior performance options at a vastly smaller price when configuring a PC. If you want to run OSX, go ahead and do it. But the hardware offerings aren't up to snuff, for me. Yeah, course you could always get some stuff done... but why be foolish about it? If you need a new machine now, you need to go PC. You're not locked in a black hole... whenever Apple delivers, I'm sure they'll still let you buy one.

Now, if you wanna talk about the new MBP, that thing is beautiful and I'll get one. Why? Because it's the best laptop out there. Can't say the same thing about the rest of the line. Sorry, but let's be real.

This Apple/Windows rhetoric is stale and highly irritating. It doesn't matter what you're using, so get on with it...
Click to expand...

Paul, to be clear, my aim is not to try to persuade people to buy one way or another. Like I said, people will like what they like. My point about bringing up Luma is this:

Let's assume everything that people complain is wrong with Mac Pros is actually true. Luma still manages to get high end, high profile work and produce exemplary images with them.

So, either they're very lucky or maybe what it takes to successfully do work on that level isn't what people think it takes (not entirely, anyway). Maybe it's not about having the fastest computer money can buy (regardless of platform), or being able to stuff the most RAM into it, or having the most expansion bays or slots.

Obviously, faster is faster and bigger is bigger. But maybe, just maybe, there are other things involved people need to consider that might quell the gear lust and help eliminate the stale Apple/Windows rhetoric of which you speak.

I know one thing for sure. The new Macbook Pro is indeed the best laptop out there...until it's not. When that happens, this whole thing will start all over again and people will whine that Apple needs to step up their game or else be accused of abandoning some group or another.

And the longer they take to make a significant update the more of a personal affront it will become to those users who deem themselves too whatever for its meager offerings.

That cycle is easily avoided if we get over thinking we always need the latest and greatest. That line of thinking causes hurdles that need not exist. Luma is an example of a place that makes the tools (and not necessarily the very best tools) work for them on a very high level. I would think people would find that inspiring.
 
Jannard said:
...will shake the core of the Apple professional.

...purgatory when Steve was gone and Sculley (and others) completely screwed up Apple. I expect this moment in time to be just another brief moment in Apple limbo...
Jim
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The wording here is just brilliant... and ominous.

In 2009 I decided I was going to buy my first mac as soon as the new Shake update came out. I'm still waiting.
 
Brian Boyer said:
Let's assume everything that people complain is wrong with Mac Pros is actually true. Luma still manages to get high end, high profile work and produce exemplary images with them...[SNIP]...Luma is an example of a place that makes the tools (and not necessarily the very best tools) work for them on a very high level. I would think people would find that inspiring.
Click to expand...

Fair point that the work is as much about the talent of the people as it is the gear. Let's not forget that great films are still being made Super16. Still, I'll take a Red (and a PC) given the choice...
 
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