Apple to hold “Back to the Mac” media event October 20

[Albert Astorga Zepeda]

You my Fried are miss informed.

You my Fried are miss informed.

Which indicates to me that CS6 is just an incremental upgrade with an integer name when it is probably just CS5.2 or whatever.

Adobe needs the constant upgrade stream for cash flow. Apple is currently flush with cash so isn't desperate to introduce a tweener FCS upgrade and can wait for the Major rewrite they have been working on - unless the level of whining reaches a point where they feel they have to release another incremental update.

There are only a few thousand RED1s period, and just a percentage of that are FCS users - so a trivial number compared to the overall installed base for FCS. The truth is FCS currently has more capability than the vast majority of owners can use - it's a pretty solid product as-is so upgrades can wait awhile until a major advance is ready.

FYI. If adobe follows standar development practices they should have started development for CS6 a year or so before CS5 launched or the same day CS5 was released to testers.
I think adobe knows they are on top and I am sure they would want to keep being on it so they would do anything to do so. and they have said it the next version will be features and enhancement.

I have said enough why do not we let us hear it from Dave?. Dave can you shine in and say whatever you can about the subject.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Well getting is almost right or close it is not the same as getting it right. I Stand by what I said before. you got most of it Wrong. sad you do not admit it. Must be a mac fanatic.

Wait what?

I'm not in the business of predicting what Apple does. And I don't care if I got it exactly right. Its a fun prediction I did for my ENTERTAINMENT.

You asked me how I felt, and I told you.

What Apple actually delivered was close enough for me... because I don't care.

So, now, because of that I'm a Mac fanatic?

That makes no sense at all. Its also rude of you to say, at best.

although you have educated me on regards to lightpeak. I was not aware of how advanced it is in terms of readiness. I sure hope you are right and we get it soon.

You are welcome.

but I wonder how soon would we be able to take advantage of it. to do so Red, Sony, Panasonic, AJA, Black Magic and others would have to implement it now. I do not particularly care if WD or Lacie have prototypes. for pro work groups you must use a SAN. plus they said none of those have a chance of being a reality.

Oh, you don't understand and think you have caught me out.

That or you are trolling.

Well, I shouldn't feed the trolls, but I suppose its possible you don't understand.

This is my last reply to you on this topic.

First off, you wouldn't have caught me out.. but rather Intel and Apple.

LightPeak is FAST. Faster than an 8x PCIe slot. Its twice as fast as the latest version of Fibre Channel.

You can legitimately run a full SAN connection (replacing Fibre Channel), a RED Rocket card, and a full bandwidth video i/o card over a single LightPeak link.

As to the Camera manufacturers Sony Panasonic et al do have to build entire new systems to support LightPeak... that is their architecture.

RED is obsolescence obsolete. All they have to do is release a LightPeak i/o module- if that makes sense.

I don't think its all that useful for cameras at this stage though... I'm expecting optical 3G SDI instead on those systems.

As far as AJA and Black Magic are concerned they both have VERY easy jobs to do to support LightPeak.

Black Magic has a USB 3 i/o device that is roughly comparable to a Decklink card. All Black Magic has to do is change the interface logic and a couple bits of hardware and they are in business.

AJA has a product called ioHD. It already runs a full external i/o system over Firewire 800. That system is limited to 1080p using ProRes HQ. Updating the interface would allow it to work uncompressed over lightpeak.

Of course the very simplest thing anyone can do with the greatest immediate impact is to develop an external chassis with 2 4x PCIe and 2 1x PCIe slots and a bridge over Lightpeak.

Then every single lightpeak equipped computer can get access to four PCIe cards worth of capability.

Adding a Lightpeak port to a Mac mini, iMac or Laptop can potentially make it a full mid tower desktop replacement.

So... if we are very lucky we'll see a Mac in 2011 with one or two LightPeak ports and two PCIe 16/32x slots.

In other words... without a huge change in how cards and other devices are made Lightpeak could revolutionize computing almost overnight. That's a huge difference from what Firewire and USB offered at their debut.

That's with the first slowest version of LightPeak.

 

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

That's one of the main things I do not like about Apple. The have zero customer relations when it comes to feedback on their products. Only when it's major issues do they really seem to take notice.

No USB 3.0 yet, no blu ray drives, and now trying to make the desktop into iOS. I think it might be in the near future that I drop Apple...

Agree. Agree and agree.
I can't even remember the last time Apple released a new product that excited me, and they used to do it very often.

 

[AnthonyFlores]

The Newton was a flop as well. iPad = Newton 2.0

Dude, what are you smoking?? The iPad has been one of the most computing
technology products ever released -- it has given Apple such a huge head
start it's highly unlikely that anyone will ever compete with them in the
"tablet" market ... with Google, Blackberry and Microsoft all battling for
#2.

The product is projected 13.8 million units this year, with many new retail
outlets like Target, Wallmart, AT&T and Verizon it this holiday season.

Most Wall Street analysts project unit sales of 30-40 million units next year.

And this doesn't even include the "halo effect" they will likely see in
converting PC people over to iPhones, MacAirs, iMacs, etc.

I hope all the product launches I work on "flop" this badly.

Anthony

 

[Albert Astorga Zepeda]

My turn to educate you.

My turn to educate you.

Wait what?

I'm not in the business of predicting what Apple does. And I don't care if I got it exactly right. Its a fun prediction I did for my ENTERTAINMENT.

You asked me how I felt, and I told you.

What Apple actually delivered was close enough for me... because I don't care.

So, now, because of that I'm a Mac fanatic?

That makes no sense at all. Its also rude of you to say, at best.


You are welcome.



Oh, you don't understand and think you have caught me out.

That or you are trolling.

Well, I shouldn't feed the trolls, but I suppose its possible you don't understand.

This is my last reply to you on this topic.

First off, you wouldn't have caught me out.. but rather Intel and Apple.

LightPeak is FAST. Faster than an 8x PCIe slot. Its twice as fast as the latest version of Fibre Channel.

You can legitimately run a full SAN connection (replacing Fibre Channel), a RED Rocket card, and a full bandwidth video i/o card over a single LightPeak link.

As to the Camera manufacturers Sony Panasonic et al do have to build entire new systems to support LightPeak... that is their architecture.

RED is obsolescence obsolete. All they have to do is release a LightPeak i/o module- if that makes sense.

I don't think its all that useful for cameras at this stage though... I'm expecting optical 3G SDI instead on those systems.

As far as AJA and Black Magic are concerned they both have VERY easy jobs to do to support LightPeak.

Black Magic has a USB 3 i/o device that is roughly comparable to a Decklink card. All Black Magic has to do is change the interface logic and a couple bits of hardware and they are in business.

AJA has a product called ioHD. It already runs a full external i/o system over Firewire 800. That system is limited to 1080p using ProRes HQ. Updating the interface would allow it to work uncompressed over lightpeak.

Of course the very simplest thing anyone can do with the greatest immediate impact is to develop an external chassis with 2 4x PCIe and 2 1x PCIe slots and a bridge over Lightpeak.

Then every single lightpeak equipped computer can get access to four PCIe cards worth of capability.

Adding a Lightpeak port to a Mac mini, iMac or Laptop can potentially make it a full mid tower desktop replacement.

So... if we are very lucky we'll see a Mac in 2011 with one or two LightPeak ports and two PCIe 16/32x slots.

In other words... without a huge change in how cards and other devices are made Lightpeak could revolutionize computing almost overnight. That's a huge difference from what Firewire and USB offered at their debut.

That's with the first slowest version of LightPeak.

FYI: PCIe V1.0 X8=16.777 Gb/s and PCIe V2.0 X8=33.554 Gb/s
HDMI's V1.3 bandwidth is 10.2Gb/s
The last shipping version of Fibre Channel is 8GFC (8.50 GHz) which=7.1303 Gb/s, so light peak at 10Gb/s it is not exactly Twice as fast as you mention. is it?
you might be confusing Gb with GB.
Here: 10Gb=1.25 GB/s and that is the current speed of light peak. they mention 100Gb which=12.5GB/s but in 10 Years. by then we will have PCIe V3.0 X32 which is about 26GB/s or 214.75Gb/s.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Agree. Agree and agree.
I can't even remember the last time Apple released a new product that excited me, and they used to do it very often.

Well, I was not excited by the presentation...

but the more I think about it the more I think that having iOS and OS X feed back into each other is a good thing.

After all I want a touch interface for my computer.

The main problem is getting Jobs to understand that I don't want monitors sitting up like thy do now.. I want them laying flat and becoming my desk.

Microsoft Surface is the real innovation in desktop touch right now.

Anyway... when Apple gets that and starts developing towards it you'll be very happy for all the iOS stuff that made it back into your OS X system.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

FYI: PCIe V1.0 X8=16.777 Gb/s and PCIe V2.0 X8=33.554 Gb/s
HDMI's V1.3 bandwidth is 10.2Gb/s
The last shipping version of Fibre Channel is 8GFC (8.50 GHz) which=7.1303 Gb/s, so light peak at 10Gb/s it is not exactly Twice as fast as you mention. is it?
you might be confusing Gb with GB.
Here: 10Gb=1.25 GB/s and that is the current speed of light peak. they mention 100Gb which=12.5GB/s but in 10 Years. by then we will have PCIe V3.0 X32 which is about 26GB/s or 214.75Gb/s.

I said I wasn't going to respond... but here I am.

First off I was talking about a "single LightPeak link" ... but I meant Intel's current LightPeak PCIe card. My mistake.

Intel's LightPeak card has four ports each with 10Gbps full duplex, and an aggregate bandwidth of 40Gbps The Intel LightPeak card requires a 16x PCIe 2.0 slot for full speed- so I hope they decide to make a 6 port version and at least use up the entire bandwidth of the slot they want to eat up.

Or perhaps they'll wait until PCIe 3 ships to ship LightPeak, which would be fine with me as well. (and may also be a reason no major new Macs were announced.) PCIe 3.0 should be shipping in mid 2011 as well. Even so, a six port LightPeak card could be implemented on a PCIe 3.0 8X slot.

I also don't expect LightPeak to take 10 years to scale to 100Gbps. The technology behind it is very mature. (Basically optical fibre technology parts that can't be used for telcos, who have to transmit kilometers, are readily usable at full speed for LightPeak, which only transmits 100 meters.)

In speaking of Fiber Channel was thinking of 2 GFC which is 400MBps, or 3.2Gbps. I am so out of date on Fiber CHannel. 8 GFC works out to 12.8 Gbps, which is just outside LightPeak capacity. Of course now that I've done some homework, the latest fiber channel is 20GFC which is 5100 MBps. I don't know if you can actually buy such a card... or a RAID array that can saturate it.

You are spot on about HDMI... but the HDMI spec refers not to the signal, but rather to the wire specification. The wire specification is intentionally overspecified, so that it can handle significant degradation due to poor consumer handling. (cheap cables, passive splitters and extenders can be included in the line while still delivering the full signal.)

For comparison dual link HD SDI and 3G-SDI both support 2.97Gbit/s which can deliver 12 bit 4:4:4. With 3D, there is an application for supporting two of those links simultaneously... which would add up to 6Gbps. HDMI 1.4a also supports 4k images, using a video bandwidth of 8.16Gbps

Using optical fiber, you can transmit HDMI compliant signals quite readily over far longer distances than HDMI supports over copper. (100 meters, as opposed to HDMI over copper which is about 50 feet or 15 meters)

So... I stand by my statement. I had a lot of details wrong, but my central thesis is still supported.

LightPeak is FAST.

Intel's existing prototype LightPeak board will simultaneously support

• an i/o board with the bandwidth needed for two 3G SDI channels, for 3D 1080p or 2K
• Two HDMI bridges each with support for 12 bit per channel 4K
• A fast disk interface. (close to 8GFC Fibre Channel, and faster than most RAID arrays)

Now as a correction that Intel LightPeak board would support 4 PCIe 2.0 2x lanes, which coupled with an external PCIe chassis would solve a lot of problems right away.

Further each LightPort link would be equivalent to the raw bandwidth of two PC Expresscard 2.0 connectors. I don't think ExpressCard 2.0 is "dead on arrival" there are certain elegant things about having a card that can slot inside of your computer as opposed to an externally connected device.

All my statements about the AJA ioHD and BlackMagic stand unaltered. A Decklink 3D card only uses a PCIe 1x slot... as does a Rocket.

Sorry for the confusion... I was really off my game last night. (Good thing I wasn't working!)

 

[Stephen Gentle]

That's one of the main things I do not like about Apple. The have zero customer relations when it comes to feedback on their products. Only when it's major issues do they really seem to take notice.

No USB 3.0 yet, no blu ray drives, and now trying to make the desktop into iOS. I think it might be in the near future that I drop Apple...

How do you expect them to ship USB3 if Intel don't have a mobile chipset that supports it?

 

[Albert Astorga Zepeda]

I Must learn More about this light peak.

I Must learn More about this light peak.

I said I wasn't going to respond... but here I am.

First off I was talking about a "single LightPeak link" ... but I meant Intel's current LightPeak PCIe card. My mistake.

Intel's LightPeak card has four ports each with 10Gbps full duplex, and an aggregate bandwidth of 40Gbps The Intel LightPeak card requires a 16x PCIe 2.0 slot for full speed- so I hope they decide to make a 6 port version and at least use up the entire bandwidth of the slot they want to eat up.

Or perhaps they'll wait until PCIe 3 ships to ship LightPeak, which would be fine with me as well. (and may also be a reason no major new Macs were announced.) PCIe 3.0 should be shipping in mid 2011 as well. Even so, a six port LightPeak card could be implemented on a PCIe 3.0 8X slot.

I also don't expect LightPeak to take 10 years to scale to 100Gbps. The technology behind it is very mature. (Basically optical fibre technology parts that can't be used for telcos, who have to transmit kilometers, are readily usable at full speed for LightPeak, which only transmits 100 meters.)

In speaking of Fiber Channel was thinking of 2 GFC which is 400MBps, or 3.2Gbps. I am so out of date on Fiber CHannel. 8 GFC works out to 12.8 Gbps, which is just outside LightPeak capacity. Of course now that I've done some homework, the latest fiber channel is 20GFC which is 5100 MBps. I don't know if you can actually buy such a card... or a RAID array that can saturate it.

You are spot on about HDMI... but the HDMI spec refers not to the signal, but rather to the wire specification. The wire specification is intentionally overspecified, so that it can handle significant degradation due to poor consumer handling. (cheap cables, passive splitters and extenders can be included in the line while still delivering the full signal.)

For comparison dual link HD SDI and 3G-SDI both support 2.97Gbit/s which can deliver 12 bit 4:4:4. With 3D, there is an application for supporting two of those links simultaneously... which would add up to 6Gbps. HDMI 1.4a also supports 4k images, using a video bandwidth of 8.16Gbps

Using optical fiber, you can transmit HDMI compliant signals quite readily over far longer distances than HDMI supports over copper. (100 meters, as opposed to HDMI over copper which is about 50 feet or 15 meters)

So... I stand by my statement. I had a lot of details wrong, but my central thesis is still supported.

LightPeak is FAST.

Intel's existing prototype LightPeak board will simultaneously support

• an i/o board with the bandwidth needed for two 3G SDI channels, for 3D 1080p or 2K
• Two HDMI bridges each with support for 12 bit per channel 4K
• A fast disk interface. (close to 8GFC Fibre Channel, and faster than most RAID arrays)

Now as a correction that Intel LightPeak board would support 4 PCIe 2.0 2x lanes, which coupled with an external PCIe chassis would solve a lot of problems right away.

Further each LightPort link would be equivalent to the raw bandwidth of two PC Expresscard 2.0 connectors. I don't think ExpressCard 2.0 is "dead on arrival" there are certain elegant things about having a card that can slot inside of your computer as opposed to an externally connected device.

All my statements about the AJA ioHD and BlackMagic stand unaltered. A Decklink 3D card only uses a PCIe 1x slot... as does a Rocket.

Sorry for the confusion... I was really off my game last night. (Good thing I wasn't working!)

I am Starting to Like this light peak the more I learn about it. I did not pay attention because it seem like it was not its time when I heard about it and maybe too good to be true. I just hope they implement it Soon. as we will be working on a 3 Million Dollars Studio here in town and I would love to implement it somehow in the planned workstations. and if possible in the 300TB SAN.

Thank you Alexander for the info.

 

[Albert Astorga Zepeda]

Options. Options

Options. Options

How do you expect them to ship USB3 if Intel don't have a mobile chipset that supports it?

Intel and Apple are all about Light peak. is it not bad for us not being able to have a choice. I now feel much better that if FCP does not cut it for me I can use Premiere Pro or if DVDSP does not handle Blu-Ray. I can fire up Encore.
May be Light peak wil support Firewire and USB 3.0. I sure hope so.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Intel and Apple are all about Light peak. is it not bad for us not being able to have a choice. I now feel much better that if FCP does not cut it for me I can use Premiere Pro or if DVDSP does not handle Blu-Ray. I can fire up Encore.
May be Light peak wil support Firewire and USB 3.0. I sure hope so.

It should... but not directly.

Right now the LightPeak connector on prototype hardware is a USB 3 connector, but that will undoubtedly change.

I expect there to be bridge devices.

Basically a little box with LightPeak in, a USB3 and Firewire 3200 port, and a couple each of USB 2 and Firewire 400. Sort of like the HDMI bridge you may have seen.

I'm willing to guess that Sonnet will make one of those.

I do think its too bad that Apple and Intel have not continued top tier support for current ports. I really would have liked to see Firewire 3200 and USB3 on current devices.

(People often ask me why I want FW3200, there are no devices. My answer is so that I can run more FW800 devices at full speed with the aggregate bandwidth. Ideal for laptops.)

 

[Jarred Land]

I dont really care what comes.. Lightpeak, USB3.0 or Firewire3200.. All i care is that something fast comes soon.. we are at the point where most single drive media can out-race most standard interfaces out there (minus Esata).

I figure Esata is going to die as soon as something else comes though.. and I think everyone will be happy when it does. I gotta say though i am happy it does exist, as I still rely on using Esata, on the 1.8" REDSTATION for example, the 1.8" SSDs empties those 256GB mags sooooooo much faster than FW800.

.... if they just would of put power over Esata and made a less retarded connector for it , it likely be on everything by now and have had a much longer lifespan. O well.

I was really excited when the Caldigit USB3.0 card came out for the Mac a few weeks ago.. problem is I can't get it to go faster than USB2 speeds on any system/USB 3 drives I have tried it on... Caldigit support has seemingly given up on trying to help me. What a let down. So close

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

I dont really care what comes.. Lightpeak, USB3.0 or Firewire3200.. All i care is that something fast comes soon.. we are at the point where most single drive media can out-race most standard interfaces out there (minus Esata).

I figure Esata is going to die as soon as something else comes though.. and I think everyone will be happy when it does. I gotta say though i am happy it does exist, as I still rely on using Esata, on the 1.8" REDSTATION for example, the 1.8" SSDs empties those 256GB mags sooooooo much faster than FW800.

.... if they just would of put power over Esata and made a less retarded connector for it , it likely be on everything by now and have had a much longer lifespan. O well.

I was really excited when the Caldigit USB3.0 card came out for the Mac a few weeks ago.. problem is I can't get it to go faster than USB2 speeds on any system/USB 3 drives I have tried it on... Caldigit support has seemingly given up on trying to help me. What a let down. So close

That's a bit depressing. I was hoping to grab a Caldigit USB3 card... but now I'm definitely holding off. Do you have any clue at all what the problem is? Does it work in Windows or Linux?

 

[Jarred Land]

No idea what the problem is.. I got the AV USB 3.0 drive / card bundle and the drivers on the drive would not load so they emailed me some new ones.. they installed, looked like they were fine in Hardware profiler, drives show up connected, but they are a fraction of the speed they should be at.. Thinking it might of just been a bad card, I purchased 2 more stand alone cards.. and none of them go any faster than 35MB/s. Tried about 7 different USB3 readers and drives. Some of those same drives I have an Esata version that tested at the same time went well over 130MB/s.

I hanv't tried them on a PC yet.. I didnt need to as my PC tower already has USB3.0 built into it.

Suspect somethings up though.. before I would get email responses in an hour from them. Now after i sent them screenshots of the benchmarks, I havn't heard anything from them for 5 days

 

[Curran Giddens]

Suspect somethings up though.. before I would get email responses in an hour from them. Now after i sent them screenshots of the benchmarks, I havn't heard anything from them for 5 days

I guess they didnt know who they were dealing with. Next time you get slow email responses make sure to remind them that you are the owner of some very popular Internet forums... You got lots of influence when you recommend or don't recommend a product.

 

[ericyoung]

...Suspect somethings up though.. before I would get email responses in an hour from them. Now after i sent them screenshots of the benchmarks, I havn't heard anything from them for 5 days

Hopefully they're scratching their heads and staying up late working on the problem! :smile:

 

[Tony Lorentzen]

Just tweeted about this and someone from Caldigit responded within 20 minutes; they are looking into this, Jarred.

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

Gotta love social media!

 

[Jarred Land]

Thanks for your tweet Tony.. I just got an email from them. Funny how that works

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

CalDigit support is usually pretty good, in my experience. Nice to see they follow Twitter, too.

I don't own their USB3.0 card.

I have tried the EVGA and Rosewill USB3.0 cards (not on a Mac) and have had mixed results with both in Windows. IMO, the standard just isn't ready for prime-time yet, so I haven't even attempted to stick a USB3.0 card into a Mac -- all my slots in my Macs are full anyway.

Too many devices don't play well together in USB3.0 land. The Rosewill card likes to default to USB2.0 for both headers if I connect a single USB2.0 device. Can't lock the header to 4.8Gbps mode unless all attached devices support the "superspeed" option. I think that may be a limitation in the spec. I don't know... I think I'm just going to wait and see what happens when Intel gets USB3.0 rolled into Sandy Bridge and other upcoming platforms early next year.

SATA 4.0 and LightPeak are where it's all going to be at anyway. SATA4 is 18Gbps per channel, LightPeak is 10Gbps. OCZ has their own HSDL spec, which is open, but looks like a proprietary take on SATA4 and operates at 20Gbps -- it's also available now in limited release whereas SATA4 is mostly still on paper at this point... About this time next year should be good. Waiting sucks.