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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

"Apple scaling Final Cut Studio apps to fit prosumers"

Stephen Webb said:
2) They've been busy rebuilding everything from the ground up and so simply haven't had the time (or inclination) to spend on major refinements to a suite that may soon be EOL.

I hope for the second (particularly given the pronouncements of Mr Jobs), but either way until Apple make an announcement there's nothing to get over excited about.
Click to expand...

That's just common sense. That is exactly what they are doing. For anyone to actually think or even consider the thought of them not building 64bit apps after the release of Logic pro 64bit and Snowleopard is just not thinking straight. It seems like all everyone is waiting for is for a word from apple telling the world what they are up to. Its common knowledge that at apple, one group people don't even know what the next group of people are working on. Shake was not even in the same category of products as motion and FCP were. FCP as it stands is a pro-sumer app, and it should rightly always evolve that way. If you don't like it get Avid MC or Smoke. A large company has to service a large market, tech support is more expensive than software development so creating products that can certify both markets works perfectly.
As of now there is a new king in town and its CS5. Adobe's market share will grow exponentially because their attitude has changed, they are actually interested in our market, whatever Apple puts out they will put out a better version.
We all come from different backgrounds, many of us want to write, shoot and edit in as little time as possible, then pass the product on to the pros to clean up, score, color and Finish etc. The acquisition tools: Red, HDcams, HDslrs, Alexa, Acam, AAton are all heading in this direction.

There are many jobs where talent and experience count and can't replace be replaced by software. But technical jobs like trans-coding, transfers, tape logging, sound syncing, calibration, standardizing, transporting and archiving, should be a thing of the past are the acquisition formats are narrowed down.
The Pros will always need and use professional monitors, fast drives, control panels, room color, proc-amps, mixers, etc. Every cable and TV station has its standards and feed requirements, the engineers there always re-calibrate and re-tweak whatever you hand over to them.
 
Curran Giddens said:
If this is the case do you think it would hurt Apple even the slightest to make an announcement that they are actually rebuilding everything from the ground up?
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That's a far bigger argument than just FCS though, isn't it :rolleyes:

Those pronouncements from Mr Jobs? You mean the one line email replies?
Click to expand...

Which is about as much as anyone gets, outside of a keynote address.
 
Apple's biggest problem they face IMO is their ageing MacPro.
What good is Smoke and Resolve on Mac if the Mac itself is underpowered, not enough PCIe slots, only 2 CPU's, no nVidia SDI graphics support and only 4 HD slots.

Being a Pro Mac users you simply outgrow the hardware but are stuck with what iApple offer you.

Time to have a play at Hackintosh and see what you can build yourself as Apple seem to be missing the boat and ignoring real Pro needs for iToys
 
roryhinds said:
Apple's biggest problem they face IMO is their ageing MacPro.
What good is Smoke and Resolve on Mac if the Mac itself is underpowered, not enough PCIe slots, only 2 CPU's, no nVidia SDI graphics support and only 4 HD slots.
Click to expand...

It has been 13 years(!) since Apple offered a machine with more internal expandability than the current Mac Pro -- before Apple even got into pro video. So I don't think this has anything to do with Apple deciding to ignore pro customers because of the iPhone or whatever.

Internal expandability just isn't as important as it once was, as fewer things now require dedicated hardware, and external interfaces have gotten much faster. If you look at where things are headed with USB 3, Light Peak and DisplayPort, pro video might not require any internal expandability at all in five years.
 
roryhinds said:
Apple's biggest problem they face IMO is their ageing MacPro.
What good is Smoke and Resolve on Mac if the Mac itself is underpowered, not enough PCIe slots, only 2 CPU's, no nVidia SDI graphics support and only 4 HD slots.

Being a Pro Mac users you simply outgrow the hardware but are stuck with what iApple offer you.

Time to have a play at Hackintosh and see what you can build yourself as Apple seem to be missing the boat and ignoring real Pro needs for iToys
Click to expand...

What good are Smoke and Resolve on Mac? They allow smaller players to learn and utilize the tools. Not all pros require a render farm. Many folks who will use those tools can't afford a full Resolve system. It doesn't make their work any less professional. I have no use for such silly snobbery. Do you have a $120,000 Resolve on Linux?

I agree that a new Mac tower is due. I don't see 4 HD slots as a problem.

We all outgrow our hardware. Some do it faster than others. This is hardly a shortcoming of the hardware. If hardware and software never evolved then I guess we wouldn't outgrow it. But then how long would we want to use it in that state?

This is an old complaint. Tech is evolving quickly and we love it. We also love to bitch about it. Such is human nature, I guess.
 
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Chris Kenny said:
It has been 13 years(!) since Apple offered a machine with more internal expandability than the current Mac Pro -- before Apple even got into pro video. So I don't think this has anything to do with Apple deciding to ignore pro customers because of the iPhone or whatever.

Internal expandability just isn't as important as it once was, as fewer things now require dedicated hardware, and external interfaces have gotten much faster. If you look at where things are headed with USB 3, Light Peak and DisplayPort, pro video might not require any internal expandability at all in five years.
Click to expand...

very well said. The scaleable possibilities of HDMI and USB 3.0, w
ill require t
he use of less and less cards
 
Scott Crawley said:
What good are Smoke and Resolve on Mac? They allow smaller players to learn and utilize the tools. Not all pros require a render farm. Many folks who will use those tools can't afford a full Resolve system. It doesn't make their work any less professional. I have no use for such silly snobbery. Do you have a $120,000 Resolve on Linux?

I agree that a new Mac tower is due. I don't see 4 HD slots as a problem.

We all outgrow our hardware. Some do it faster than others. This is hardly a shortcoming of the hardware. If hardware and software never evolved then I guess we wouldn't outgrow it. But then how long would we want to use it in that state?

This is an old complaint. Tech is evolving quickly and we love it. We also love to bitch about it. Such is human nature, I guess.
Click to expand...

Scott thank you very much for that response. I have been fighting against this type of snobbery by the "established" on Reduser since the NAB announcement of Resolve for the Mac. It is a inevitable that Apple will release a new better faster version of the FinalCut Pro. At a party this past weekend I had a conversation with a dude from Company 3, he said they are actually more excited about the Resolve System being more portable, he can do lots of tracking rotoscoping etc in a coffee shop. He said that's the bulk of what the have to do.
 
"snobbery" who said anything about snobbery... when a artist's is hindered by the tool he is using where is that snobbery to want a better tool and not have to jump ship to another OS for that tool.

BTW Resolve Linux is $30k now not $120k. I've been using Mac OS since 1992 and don't want to move to Windows or Linux and the only thing making me is that the Hardware is limited with Apple.

HD expansion, sure you can get around that with external drives... add a PCIe and you're good to go but wait a minute you only have 4 available on the Mac.... so RR card, AJA, ATTO and only 1 GPU.... hmmm so no SLI, no SDI ie... no pro graphics on the Mac and its graphics what I work in.

Don't get me wrong all this complaining is to hopefully get Apple to offer a Mac Pro Workstation for professionals that the iToy's aspire too. I not moving OS anytime soon but instead I'm finding my tool is restricting my growth which is annoying and not a good business move.
 
I think theres a lot of confusion between snobery and people who are willing to pay for the tools that make their job easiest, even if those tools are 5 or 6 figures.
I for one have no want to be editing a show on a laptop in a coffee shop. I certaintly wouldnt want to attempt to do something like roto work on one.
 
roryhinds said:
"snobbery" who said anything about snobbery... when a artist's is hindered by the tool he is using where is that snobbery to want a better tool and not have to jump ship to another OS for that tool.

BTW Resolve Linux is $30k now not $120k. I've been using Mac OS since 1992 and don't want to move to Windows or Linux and the only thing making me is that the Hardware is limited with Apple.

Don't get me wrong all this complaining is to hopefully get Apple to offer a Mac Pro Workstation for professionals that the iToy's aspire too.
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If you are trying to do realtime work on an iMac then I understand your frustration and misinterpreted your motivation. However, if you chose a single iMac to do the job of a render farm then you can't fault the hardware. Calling an iMac underpowered because it can't do the job of a Linux chasis full of processors is kind of goofy. An iMac was designed to be a consumer machine and bears a consumer price tag. It doesn't aspire to be a render farm. It wants to surf the web and run the isuite and play a simple game or two... Not a whole lot more. If you want pro performance, be prepared to pony up the bucks.

Basic Resolve for Linux with control surface is $30,000, the full Linux license is an additional $19,000 and then you have to provide the hardware infrastructure. I'll bet you are still looking at a figure closer to $100,000 than $30,000 for full, realtime, 4k DaVinci performance.

If you have the desire, need and means to spend that kind of money on a Resolve that is one thing, to do so and discredit the usefulness of a lesser system, call it a toy and those who use it unprofessional, is snobbery. I may have misread Mr. Hinds, but I don't feel confused about what snobbery is.
 
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Let's be Machiavellian here for a moment.

Let's say that it has taken about this long, a long time for Adobe to come up with a MAC version of a suite of apps for "professionals"

Very few high end professionals would use the entire suite of apps to complete projects, the people who do use the entire suite to edit, mix finsih, etc are sort of Prosumer- all-in-one-suite type "professionals".

Let's say Apple just wanted to see what Adobe's offering is at this time (on their hardware of course) and that they are actually preparing to start a whole new mentality in the post game, getting away form a SUITE of applications and blending it all into one creative super app, eliminating the need for "send to" commands and all that stuff.

I suspect the next offering form apple will be more like SMOKE on a mac than any standalone suite of hatched together apps.

Only can be two things:
1. They will blow our minds.
2. They will get out of the pro game.

I'm going to bet on number one.

David
 
David Battistella said:
Only can be two things:
1. They will blow our minds.
2. They will get out of the pro game.

I'm going to bet on number one.
Click to expand...

Pretty much everyone was thinking #1 before the last update and... well we got almost nothing

I'd be happy with freaking blu-ray support in DVD studio pro at this point.
 
You guys crack me up.

I heard *ALL* these same stories after Apple bought Logic Pro, and after Logic Pro 7 had been out for a long time and Apple made no sound about a new version, MANY MANY blogs posted similar stories about how Apple was killing Logic.

Then along came Logic Pro 8, which in fact they did a similar thing to what is being mentioned here. They streamlined the App and made it easier to use in some regards. They also added A FREAKING TON! of new features. I liked it so much, I switched from Digital Performer to Logic Pro for writing music.

Now they are at Logic Pro 9 which can run in 64-bit, before all the other DAWs have. Not only that, but natively, I've yet to see another DAW that works as efficiently as Logic Pro, and I own quite a few others (including Native ProTools 9).

If their pathway with Logic is any sign, then I WELCOME their changes to FCP. I'd like to see it improved like they did with Logic as I HATED Logic Pro 7.

Now Motion, I couldn't agree more with. Anything complex brings my Mac Pro to the ground. I mostly just use AE now for compositing. I used Shake back in the day. I did like it, but I absolutely like AE much better.
 
Amen Rick.

Much of the inclination to count FCP out comes from the firings. Jobs explained that those people were not engineers. Some folks missed or ignored that. I see no real reason to expect them to bail.
 
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