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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

"Apple scaling Final Cut Studio apps to fit prosumers"

My guess is that Final Cut Express is going to be a a glimpse at Final Cut Pro of the future.

FCE will be a major overhaul to the UI and backend (64bit, grandcentral, etc), and the development there will easily transition into FCP. FCP will likely remain pro, but probably get more pro.

I hope to see a live video editing system as well for live direct to web.
 
"KeyGrip had evolved to become Final Cut by NAB 98, where it was being shown in a small demo room in the basement. That was my first exposure and I still have the T shirt (which fits a much younger man)."

Philip,

Really nice piece to balance those rumours.

That line made me LMAO.

David
 
Philip Hodgetts said:
Sorry, Apple Insider are 100% wrong. For intelligent analysis check out my 1750 words on why this is very, very positive for Final Cut Pro when you analyze it properly.

http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2010/05/18/why-apple-insider-couldnt-be-more-wrong/

Philip
Click to expand...

Philip, You are absolutely correct that Apple has worked really hard to get to this point, but you have to admit that the more recent developments are troubling.

1 - Firing 40 odd people from the Final Cut team. Yes, they were from the support department, but think about that. If you're going to release a brand new awesome program that is completely different then anything before it... why would you fire the very people that will be essential in getting it working in the hands of the faithful?

2 - When Apple removed the express card slot from the "pro" mac line, they were giving the big finger to the pro community. Want to connect your camera through firewire? Now you need to connect your mass storage via USB. With the new tapeless reality people are bringing their notebooks to set, and the majority of people do not want to lug around a 17". So why did they get rid of it? to put in a SD slot that isn't even used by professional photographers, but by the prosumer crowd. At least a CF card would have been worth of the "Pro" name. At least in their notebook line "Pro" stands for "Prosumer"

3 - Apple has done a redesign of every single one of their products except for the MacPro.

4 - The Apple Cinema Displays are overpriced dinosaurs. Where is the 30" LED display? Why is a 27" imac with quad core i5 the same price as a 30" display?

5 - Why has Apple not only not been to NAB along side Adobe and Avid, but not even sponsored the Final Cut Pro User Group Supermeet that draws hundreds (if not thousands) of users from around the world? The event is now sponsored primarily by Adobe and Avid. Apple's contribution? Zip.

Could Appleinsider be wrong? Absolutely, and I sure hope they are. But Apple is starting to worry me -that the "i" is going to their heads...
 
Philip Hodgetts said:
Sorry, Apple Insider are 100% wrong. For intelligent analysis check out my 1750 words on why this is very, very positive for Final Cut Pro when you analyze it properly.

http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2010/05/18/why-apple-insider-couldnt-be-more-wrong/

Philip
Click to expand...

Your analysis is rather optimistic. Pro apps for apple are not that profitable.
http://www.9to5mac.com/ipad-sales-cannibalization-494596

Also you forgot something, "in 2007 apple introduced the iphone" :lol:
 
Noah Kadner said:
On the Mac- Autodesk's Smoke is about the most intriguing current development. Though with its relatively sky-high pricepoint I don't see it achieving critical mass among most FCP users.

Noah
Click to expand...

A well equipped edit suite is not cheap anyway. Adding the 15k for Smoke on Mac will tremendiously streamline the workflow, safe tons of time and kills all the shortcomings that arise when using FCP for finishing (infamous gamma shift, RGB in 8 Bit, etc...). For a certain kind of jobs even a dedicated CC tool (which is pretty costly) or a comp tool such us Nuke or Fusion can be obsolete. Smoke on Mac is in many ways as revolutionary as the RedOne was when it hit the streets 2 years ago: you can use a high-end tool for less than a 5th of the price a comparative tool costs.

BUT, while basic editing with FCP is easy to learn the learning curve to use Smoke on Mac is steep and long. IMHO, to develop the skills to use a Smoke in a fast pace, to leverage its powerful tool sets in a meaningful way and exploit the systems possibility to the maximum costs much, much time and needs last but not least talent and passion.

IMHO, the price point is the smaller obstacle.

If Apple were to develop a tool like Smoke, a kind of über-NLE, they would only address the needs of a fraction of FCP's user base. The vast majority did not even look into the free of charge CC-tool Color, let alone using it. The average FCP user rather buys a plugin for colour correction, eg. Magic Bullet Looks. Apple, of course, knows all this and much more. The idea to streamline their pro apps into a more prosumer direction does not mean that the upcoming suite won't fit in our needs. On the contrary, I think FCS will benefit from more user-friendly interfaces a lot. The 2009 iMovie has a much nicer GUI than FCP, IMHO.

Hans
 
Apple totally redesigned and made rewritten FCP from the scratch to make it easy of use movie editing application and to put in hands of many consumers, "prosumers" and also so called "pros".
 
David Battistella said:
We saw how fast FCP took off. It's good tool, but FCP, like AVID has never become a better "editing" tool. It's only become a better "finishing" tool...
Click to expand...

You've got to be kidding! AVID has never become a better editing tool?!?!

Cutting on AVID MC is truly sublime. No other NLE has the feel and streamlined UI that Avid offers as an editor. Other NLEs do offer better finishing options (obviously excluding Symphony and DS) but AVID MC is streets ahead as an "editing" tool. Didn't want to make this into an AVID, FCP, PP pissing contest but saying that Avid has never become a better editing tool, just doesn't wash with the vast majority of top editors who choose Avid as their weapon of choice.

Back on the subject of Apple scaling FCP down for prosumers - Apple surely would be nuts dumping on the vast majority of their MacPro customers. Prosumers buy iMacs and MacBooks. That's why surely they are just going to make it better as an all round suite for all users. :emote_popcorn:

Tom
 
Meta what

Meta what

I heard that Randy actually is on his way out, the
reigns have actually passed to....




Kai Krause



:eek:
 
Apple Insider have a long history of being wrong about Pro Apps, as Phillip points out.

I think the most apposite comparison might be Aperture 3 - it's now a piece of software with a user-friendly interface, but pro features. This works great for Apple - they capture a market of iPhoto upgraders, and keep (most) of the pros. Also, pros win, as the price falls.

I also read the job listings mentioned are from 2009 - so maybe this process is well under way?

I can't really believe people are complaining that Apple is FINALLY overhauling FCP, re-writing the apps (maybe some consistancy?) and improving the GUI.

My guess? There will be so many improvements (speed esp.) that gripes about a changed GUI will melt into the background. No Pro features will be lost. The next 12 months will be the most exciting in FCP's history.
 
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Well compare Aperture to Lightroom, Lightroom is streets ahead in their 3 Beta compared to Aperture which as been quite stagnant since its inception with only small additions in features.
 
When you consider the fact that FC Express and iMovie already exist, it seems odd to me to predict that Apple would move FCP into the same space. However competition is getting tight, and there is a history to consider.

Yes, FCP releases have appeared stagnant compared to the competition. OK a major overhaul has been in the works for years. FCP adoption has leveled I'm sure. I think they have acheived saturation, so unless there is a huge segment of installed base that did not upgrade during the last cycle, upgrade licenses will continue to be the primary revenue stream for FCP. Consequently new releases don't generate the same $$ as they once did, so a complete overhaul becomes relatively expensive, compared to prior years.

So how would they put juice back into new licenses? Kill it. If the new release will be substantial enough to keep up with the pros, give it a new Pro name. If it won't be a competitive upgrade that is sufficient to support a brand spinoff, kill Express, cut the FCP price and move the Express users up.

It makes me sad to point this out, but the history with Shake speaks for itself. In the face of the competition Apple cut the price. When that didn't do it, they ran.

Pro or prosumer? It could go either way. If you predict that Scarlet will have traction and move pro users and prosumer users closer together, then moving FCP toward the middle would also make sense. Advantage; Final Cut Prosumer.

We have seen Apple prosumer software features move into their pro apps to a warm reception before; iPhoto/Apeture. With the success of the iMovie overhaul, why not give FCP back to Randy?
 
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Lightworks for free (plus the controller), Avid getting cheaper and opening up to RR and Matrox. Exciting times to be setting up your own edit suite. Bring it all on. If Apple drops the ball there are other ships to jump to.
 
Colin Sheldon said:
Philip, You are absolutely correct that Apple has worked really hard to get to this point, but you have to admit that the more recent developments are troubling.

1 - Firing 40 odd people from the Final Cut team. Yes, they were from the support department, but think about that. If you're going to release a brand new awesome program that is completely different then anything before it... why would you fire the very people that will be essential in getting it working in the hands of the faithful?
Click to expand...

Because it now works well enough for the demos. They don't care about it actually working robustly :P

My prediction: a technically-awesome release with lots of realtime OpenCL Grand Central this and that... and a lot of little bugs left over. Since it's a rewrite though, at least the bugs will be in different places!

I'm only bitter because I hit 2 bugs on the same night tonight:

Talking of FCP, I just finished an edit on a project and have another weird bug:
- if I put the playhead near the audio and hit play I hear all of the layers
- when I put the playhead further back and hit play, the audio for one of the layers suddenly drops out (everything is either green or rendered, Safe RT, med quality audio, render over 16 tracks)

Talking of Color:
- taking my project from the latest Mac Pro to the latest i7 iMac, everything is corrupted - when I try to view a frame on the iMac I just get long horizontal lines.

And this is version 7 of the program?

I've done projects in every major version of FCP since v1.2 - and have always hit major bugs. Like...
1.2 - superwhites not rendering properly when nested bug
2.0 - PAL timecode doesn't work properly with batch digitize bug
3.0 - gamma bug (still hitting that party :)
4.0 - "timewarps have random keyframes inserted in them and it asks for crazy timecode values that don't exist on the tape when I try to re-digitize at online resolution on my first high-end Lexus job with ad agency clients in the room" bug (that was the one which caused me to move to Avid for serious work)
5.0 - "I just don't feel like playing out to the deck unless you go through crazy 15-step procedure" bug
6.0 - "random brightness flashes" bug (which goes away if you select the clip, disable it, enable it again, then re-render)
7.0 - above-mentioned audio playback bug

That's just getting started :)

Ben Holmes said:
I can't really believe people are complaining that Apple is FINALLY overhauling FCP, re-writing the apps (maybe some consistancy?) and improving the GUI.
Click to expand...

Right on. Why is everyone so upset that Apple's re-writing again?

Ah well, if the new FCP is great - awesome! Otherwise, I will go back to my Avid for cutting and DaVinci (oh may it come soon) for grading.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
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