Apple push to win back pro editors

[Mark Toia]

I like the non destructive editing of the new FCPX... with clips moving out of the way of each other. great idea.
I like the effects and grading tools...

Everything else shits me to tears..

I wish they had a button that goes back to CLASSIC FCP7 look and usage but with the horsepower of X behind it.

Apple will loose me to Adobe CS6 the moment FCP7 is dropped in the OS.... or the moment Prem CS6 cleans up some of its clunky features.

 

[Paul Harb]

You are creating something that isnt there. Im most certainly have NEVER said people that use FCPX are amateurs or mediocre.

Im done, Ill check out now.

Paul - you'll have to pardon my sensitivity but, yeah - all your posts up to now sort of add up to saying say that people who use FCPX are somehow stupid, or mediocre or uninformed or, at best, non-professional; amateur tinkerers.

I do like being a generalist. That doesn't mean I can't strive to be, or be, amazing. I went to a liberal arts college, too; not a trade school.

Someone predicted correctly that this thread, while starting with a simple news item about Apple and FCP-X, would turn into a bash of the software and its users. And that it did.

 

[william howell]

i'd just like to say that Apples are WAY more versatile than oranges...

(Hoping to lighten the mood.)

By day, I'm a multimedia dude.. By night... I'm a solo jazz guitar player... I've studied with some heavy hitters in quite a few genres... And I totally believe that it doesn't matter what tool we all use... We are all artists....

Jimi Hendrix changed the world with 4 tracks.

Final cut x isn't that bad... Unless you want to (insert long list here).

I don't want to... But... If apple doesn't release a version that allows us to (insert long list here) Coupled with a Mac pro with thunderbolt..... I am probably going to have to switch careers.

Ive always wanted to be a night club manager.... Especially one where the ladies are scantily clad...

 

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

I'd call it more of a frustration parade. ...

I don't know about that, it seems to me that most of the anti FCP X chatter is coming from people who opened the program said "iMovie?!" closed it and haven't bothered to pay attention to what's happened since 10.0.
The MacPro replacement or upgrade will come sometime this year it's just a matter of when and what it will be and whether or not it will satisfy people because likely it won't judging by what people seem to want from it.

 

[Scott Crawley]

They're sitting on $100 billion pile of cash -

There's no "can't" here, for Apple - only, for whatever mystifying reasons, they "won't"

And yes, it is remarkable - and mystifying, that with this cash pile, that they won't or can't upgrade an existing line on an existing product which many facilities have dumped huge investments into -

But I repeat myself.

I guess I just presume that Apple is currently bound by contract to stick with Intel, so it doesn't seem mystifying to me at all.

In 2005 when they announced the move to Intel, Apple had 11.5B total assets according to E-Trade so in eight years they were able to increase their worth by 10x? I would say the choice NOT to invest their company in the semiconductor business was right for them at the time. Would you agree?

I wonder how the market would have reacted in '05 if Apple announced that they would be making their own chips... After years of playing catch-up with their competitors. It seemed to me that the Intel move was very well received and the perception was "Finally, we will get machines as fast as everyone else." I sometimes wonder if their computer sales would have otherwise imploded but I don't know much about these things.

In late '05 the fastest PPC Macs were 2.0, 2.3 and dual 2.5 GHZ. Weren't other CPUs clocking over 3.5, pushing toward 4GHZ then? There really wasn't much confidence in Apple's ability to catch up. I tend to think that signing with Intel saved the Mac.

They are a very different company now. Maybe their next move will be to their own chips. Their mobile processors are Apple branded, right? Who actually makes those, is it Samsung?

Does anyone know how long Apple is committed to Intel or is my presumption incorrect?

Edit: According to Reuters Apple and Intel have been negotiating a deal for the last year in which Intel might manufacture Apple designed, or third party designed chips for Apple. (both desktop and mobile?) http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/07/us-intel-foundry-idUSBRE92609R20130307
The article states that Intel's protracted CEO search may be holding up that agreement.

 

[Rob Castiglione]

"I don't know about that, it seems to me that most of the anti FCP X chatter is coming from people who opened the program said "iMovie?!" closed it and haven't bothered to pay attention to what's happened since 10.0."

Not so. Not using it was a considered decision for me. Even did an course on it. Still can't bear it.

 

[Joachim Hoge]

If you don't know what you are missing, then you can feel bad about missing it, right? If what you are using works for you, why not keep using it? I have no doubt that Premiere Pro is terrific. Everyone says its just like FCP7 - but it's newer! :smiley: Most of the NLEs work on the same old paradigm and most folks like that. I like changing things up, trying new ways, seeing if things can be improved. That works for me. I think FCP-X is in that category.


Here's an article that says it better then I could in a short post - this has pretty much been my experience, too.

http://www.moviemaker.com/diy/movies-better-fcp-x-red-feature-film-workflow-part-1/

Thanks for that link Terry, a very good read. I'm about to start shooting a longer project that will be pre edited/assembled (and probably edited) with Premiere , but I have the chance to set up a Fcpx project with the footage at home where I will edit some sequences
A write up like this is exactly what I've been looking for (I watched training videos, but nothing like real world scenarios from working people)

 

[Marc Wielage]

I wish they had a button that goes back to CLASSIC FCP7 look and usage but with the horsepower of X behind it.

MAN, do I agree with this! I just said this exact same thing to an editor here in LA not six hours ago.

 

[Sabyasachi Patra]

Editors should be ready to embrace new software and pick the best. However, most of the editors are like dinosaurs, stubborn in their refusal to change. FCP X now is different. FCP X is incredibly fast. If you need quick turnaround time, then go for FCP X.

The amount of time people are spending here in bashing up FCP X, if half of that time is spent in downloading an FCP X trial and testing it, then the misgivings will go away.

People here my not agree. However, I feel that if you are a professional editor, then better to start learning FCP X. One day, without any warning FCP X will become mainstream and they will look for editors with FCP X experience. The guys who are now using FCP X will have competitive edge. if not for official, at least try your personal projects and you will be able to learn the features. I will be mighty surprised if fCP X doesn't become the flavour within the next one year (max).

 

[Antoine Baumann]

As Walter Murch wrote, what takes time is not the cut itself, it's to know where to cut. That is why Balzac is still one of the most prolific writer, even do he only used ink and pen to write; because technology like computer won't make you a faster writer.

 

[Mark Toia]

Editors should be ready to embrace new software and pick the best. However, most of the editors are like dinosaurs, stubborn in their refusal to change. FCP X now is different. FCP X is incredibly fast. If you need quick turnaround time, then go for FCP X.

The amount of time people are spending here in bashing up FCP X, if half of that time is spent in downloading an FCP X trial and testing it, then the misgivings will go away.

People here my not agree. However, I feel that if you are a professional editor, then better to start learning FCP X. One day, without any warning FCP X will become mainstream and they will look for editors with FCP X experience. The guys who are now using FCP X will have competitive edge. if not for official, at least try your personal projects and you will be able to learn the features. I will be mighty surprised if fCP X doesn't become the flavour within the next one year (max).

Im not a dinosaur. I know flame , smoke, nuke , AE , PS, iL, Avid, FCPx and 7 , premier CS6 , and getting into cinema 4d ... I've spent along time on FCPX trying to love it, trying to get it to work in my edit and online world... But sadly it's the only one program I have learnt that shits me every time I use it. I do love the non destructive time line, I do like the grading tools... Everything else is rubbish .. Like I siad earlier, put a fcp7 classic button on, so we can have what we had, keep the magnetic time line and background grunt. Loose the iMovie crap.

That siad, the iMovie generation will become the next wave and it wil have a place in history over time.

 

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

Hi Mark,

you can remove background renders in the preferences (I almost never render in the background, because I just do it on export). Although the program analyses your audio (for waveforms etc) and exporting is also a background process. (working well)

About the magnetic timeline: you know you can also just work with connected clips to a primary storyline with gaps? And the position tool?

Personally, I first hated the magnetic timeline, but after a while you know where it works and where it doesn't. Where it saves you time, and where it doesn't. And you get better at the workarounds, so you sometimes get best of both worlds.

 

[Mark Toia]

Hi Mark,

you can remove background renders in the preferences (I almost never render in the background, because I just do it on export). Although the program analyses your audio (for waveforms etc) and exporting is also a background process. (working well)

About the magnetic timeline: you know you can also just work with connected clips to a primary storyline with gaps? And the position tool?

Personally, I first hated the magnetic timeline, but after a while you know where it works and where it doesn't. Where it saves you time, and where it doesn't. And you get better at the workarounds, so you sometimes get best of both worlds.

After 12 months of using it... and got quite use to it... and really tried to like it... Ive let it go. The magnetic time line I do like, not having Ins and outs and being able to export single clips or movies, without going to compressor, a play head that keeps flying around under your the pen tool... constant crashing, low res playback until rendered, staggered playback if rendering in the back ground, RED R3D's are clunky to edit...
I figured out that I hate work arounds and that my time is precious... I was faster editing at some points, but really slow in other areas... over all. I was going backwards with my time per day. I never really had any problems or work arounds with FCP7 , Prem Cs6 equally less... So why do I have to do work arounds with X....
Sadly I have moved on, but really wanted it to work. Maybe they will give us a classic version with the same grunt...... hahahhahahahaa... did I just make a joke, of course Apple wont listen to past Pro's... thats why most have gone back to Avid or moving to Prem CS6.

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

In 2005 when they announced the move to Intel, Apple had 11.5B total assets according to E-Trade so in eight years they were able to increase their worth by 10x? I would say the choice NOT to invest their company in the semiconductor business was right for them at the time. Would you agree?

Eight years is an eternity in the current tech paradigm. And I understated their cash pile - which currently sits at $137 billion, considerably up from the last time I looked. Apple has had no problem acquiring processors for laptops and minis and Imacs, all of which are now approaching the horsepower of my older edition tower, so I still don't grasp why the tower would be this huge stumbling block which you're making it out to be - every single computer in their line *except* the tower are by now many editions removed from their earlier models.

ergo, the problem isn't access to the technology to build a better tower. the problem is (and continues to be) Apple's will to deliver what their higher-demand customers have asked for, during the past four years -

I'm sure they have their reasons, all of which seemed logical at the time - poor margins, limited sales, economies of scale relative to their consumer product lines - but to then attempt to woo professionals to the fold with empty rhetoric instead of the products we need and have been vocal about for years now - it's a fail.

 

[Tim Morten]

Part of me is astonished that there's another FCPX discussion raging; seriously, didn't we all move on a long time ago? Then I remember: when it comes to Apple, some people feel an emotional connection. Fair enough; to each their own.

FCPX is objectively not the tool that most editors choose to use. This is not because editors are dinosaurs: Apple objectively had the greatest market share with FCP7, now they objectively do not with FCPX. Apple released a less successful product, has taken a long time to address many shortcomings, and still has a mixed bag of a product as demonstrated by the many comments to that effect in this thread.

I'm not surprised there are some folks out there using FCPX and enjoying it. It's great to have alternative thinking whether it's from FCPX or Sony Vegas. I mean that sincerely. That said, I have yet to see any compelling evidence that FCPX will break out of the small niche it has created for itself.

My opinion, stated when FCPX launched (despite bitter opposition from Apple lovers like Terry and Scott), is that Apple is focused on mainstream consumers to the detriment of vertical markets such as professional editors. This is a hypothesis now supported by the indisputably poor launch of FCPX, the length of time it took to address the many complaints, and the clear lack of urgency updating the Mac Pro line. I perceive the current marketing push as a weak attempt by Apple to win back some hearts and minds with PR dollars. Color me unimpressed.

The reality is that Apple makes the VAST majority of its money from the mainstream consumer. As a company, it has been financially rewarded for focusing its attention there, and there is little incentive to change: Apple is the most financially successful tech company in the world right now, bar none. I fully expect that Apple will throw vertical markets a bone from time-to-time, but realistically they no longer depend on verticals, and their priorities will continue to reflect this for the forseeable future.

Meanwhile, companies like Adobe, Avid, and others will live or die based on how well they serve the specific needs of professional vertical markets, including our own. There is no question in my mind that this fundamental difference from Apple will continue to produce the best products for my needs.

I hope Apple continues developing FCPX, and that some folks out there continue using it. It is extremely unlikely that I will be one of them, latest PR spend from Apple be damned.

Best,
Tim

 

[Mark Toia]

Part of me is astonished that there's another FCPX discussion raging; seriously, didn't we all move on a long time ago? Then I remember: when it comes to Apple, some people feel an emotional connection. Fair enough; to each their own.

FCPX is objectively not the tool that most editors choose to use. This is not because editors are dinosaurs: Apple objectively had the greatest market share with FCP7, now they objectively do not with FCPX. Apple released a less successful product, has taken a long time to address many shortcomings, and still has a mixed bag of a product as demonstrated by the many comments to that effect in this thread.

I'm not surprised there are some folks out there using FCPX and enjoying it. It's great to have alternative thinking whether it's from FCPX or Sony Vegas. I mean that sincerely. That said, I have yet to see any compelling evidence that FCPX will break out of the small niche it has created for itself.

My opinion, stated when FCPX launched (despite bitter opposition from Apple lovers like Terry and Scott), is that Apple is focused on mainstream consumers to the detriment of vertical markets such as professional editors. This is a hypothesis now supported by the indisputably poor launch of FCPX, the length of time it took to address the many complaints, and the clear lack of urgency updating the Mac Pro line. I perceive the current marketing push as a weak attempt by Apple to win back some hearts and minds with PR dollars. Color me unimpressed.

The reality is that Apple makes the VAST majority of its money from the mainstream consumer. As a company, it has been financially rewarded for focusing its attention there, and there is little incentive to change: Apple is the most financially successful tech company in the world right now, bar none. I fully expect that Apple will throw vertical markets a bone from time-to-time, but realistically they no longer depend on verticals, and their priorities will continue to reflect this for the forseeable future.

Meanwhile, companies like Adobe, Avid, and others will live or die based on how well they serve the specific needs of professional vertical markets, including our own. There is no question in my mind that this fundamental difference from Apple will continue to produce the best products for my needs.

I hope Apple continues developing FCPX, and that some folks out there continue using it. It is extremely unlikely that I will be one of them, latest PR spend from Apple be damned.

Best,
Tim

:iagree:

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

As do I well said!

 

[Craig W. Bickerstaff]

After 12 months of using it... and got quite use to it... and really tried to like it... Ive let it go. The magnetic time line I do like, not having Ins and outs and being able to export single clips or movies, without going to compressor, a play head that keeps flying around under your the pen tool... constant crashing, low res playback until rendered, staggered playback if rendering in the back ground, RED R3D's are clunky to edit...
I figured out that I hate work arounds and that my time is precious... I was faster editing at some points, but really slow in other areas... over all. I was going backwards with my time per day. I never really had any problems or work arounds with FCP7 , Prem Cs6 equally less... So why do I have to do work arounds with X....
Sadly I have moved on, but really wanted it to work. Maybe they will give us a classic version with the same grunt...... hahahhahahahaa... did I just make a joke, of course Apple wont listen to past Pro's... thats why most have gone back to Avid or moving to Prem CS6.

I don't know about the rest of that stuff because the play head thing is one of my favourite new things about FCPX since it allows me to quickly scan my timeline and I only really agree with the exporting individual clips part but what's this no ins and outs nonsense, what are you on about.

My opinion, stated when FCPX launched (despite bitter opposition from Apple lovers like Terry and Scott), is that Apple is focused on mainstream consumers to the detriment of vertical markets such as professional editors. This is a hypothesis now supported by the indisputably poor launch of FCPX, the length of time it took to address the many complaints, and the clear lack of urgency updating the Mac Pro line. I perceive the current marketing push as a weak attempt by Apple to win back some hearts and minds with PR dollars. Color me unimpressed.

The reality is that Apple makes the VAST majority of its money from the mainstream consumer. As a company, it has been financially rewarded for focusing its attention there, and there is little incentive to change: Apple is the most financially successful tech company in the world right now, bar none. I fully expect that Apple will throw vertical markets a bone from time-to-time, but realistically they no longer depend on verticals, and their priorities will continue to reflect this for the forseeable future.

This is exactly what I was on about, your opinion seems to be based exclusively off of 10.0 and completely refuses to acknowledge any of the progress that the software has made since then and will continue to make in the future although it is unlikely to ever have a "I want my Final Cut to look like an OS9 app again button."

 

[william howell]

usually i try to keep my comments in discussions like this humorous... and extremely uncontroversial....

but.. it's seemed to me, for an incredibly long time, that Apple has had it's sights on... well... industries...

one could argue that they never set out (after steve's return) to augment and exist with other industries... but.. to take over each industry... I have friends in the music industry that complain about iTunes MUCH more passionately than any of the comments i've read here...

the crumble of the music industry infrastructure is obviously coinciding with the digital age.. no tapes, records, or cd's are needed for music distribution... but... Apple's iTunes, from what i can gather, is a huge bully in their field...

these are just my opinions based on years of observations... and i'm sure they mirror many of your opinions... maybe not...

but... apple has made it extremely easy for their customer base to not only make media (movies, music, websites) but to distribute it...

there are plus's and minuses obviously... i wouldn't expect any hugely epic digital masterpiece films with to be edited on apple products anymore.... because the future isn't long movies... the future is youtube and vimeo... our global society is too fast to sit down and watch many feature length films...

it took me 3 weeks to have enough free time to watch Samsara.. which i purchased on apple tv....

apple is pushing for an evolution (or de-evolution) of the editing art form...

depending on where you stand on the issue... that's either a good thing or a bad thing... i am just honored to take part in a discussion such as this with all of you... i truly am a fan of many of the members of this forums work...

 

[Peter Proniewicz-Brooks]

After 12 months of using it... and got quite use to it... and really tried to like it... Ive let it go. The magnetic time line I do like, not having Ins and outs and being able to export single clips or movies, without going to compressor, a play head that keeps flying around under your the pen tool... constant crashing, low res playback until rendered, staggered playback if rendering in the back ground, RED R3D's are clunky to edit...
I figured out that I hate work arounds and that my time is precious... I was faster editing at some points, but really slow in other areas... over all. I was going backwards with my time per day. I never really had any problems or work arounds with FCP7 , Prem Cs6 equally less... So why do I have to do work arounds with X....
Sadly I have moved on, but really wanted it to work. Maybe they will give us a classic version with the same grunt...... hahahhahahahaa... did I just make a joke, of course Apple wont listen to past Pro's... thats why most have gone back to Avid or moving to Prem CS6.

You can't have tried that hard to like it as one of your issues about the play head there's a button above the timeline which switches it off. Another the background renderering can be paused really easily.

its not for everyone but your statement that you really tried to like it doesn't fit with how easy to fix several of the issues are.