Why 2.5" SSD drive?

[Jeff Barklage]

Now that the 1.8" SSD module and drives are available, why is the 2.5" Red Station Reader still listed in the Red store?
If RED doesn't sell 2.5" SSD drives, what's the point?
Or...will the Epic better handle the 2.5" SSD drives...thus I shouldn't waste my money buying a 1.8" system for my current Reds?
Please advise...

 

[Michael Olsen]

The 1.8" Red Station reads the RED 1.8" SSDs.

The 2.5" Red Station uses generic off-the-shelf 2.5" HDDs and SSDs. How you use that capability...well, that's up to you! :cheers2:

 

[paulherrin]

you can go straight from a RED SSD to a consumer 2.5 for backups, can you not?

 

[Chris Ratledge]

Very good question I've been wondering about too Jeff.

When SSDs come down in price this may be an option, but I'd like to see some benchmark differences between a 2.5" SSD in a Red Station vs. a 3.5" HDD in a eSATA dock or drive enclosure. Right now the cost is nowhere near comparable between these two options, but I could see the performance outweighing that factor for some.

 

[Jannard]

Shoot 1.8" and offload to 2.5". Pretty easy stuff.

Jim

 

[Nik Harper]

Shoot 1.8" and offload to 2.5". Pretty easy stuff.

Jim

Very awesome stuff, because those things are cheap and you can buy separate ones for different projects!

 

[Elsie N]

you can go straight from a RED SSD to a consumer 2.5 for backups, can you not?

Yes, after going through a laptop or desktop. Can't go direct. Would be interested if someone has a way around the intermediary laptop (for field use).

 

[Thomas Koch]

I would love to see a smart power station that had a small data router in it. All connected eSata. Have a 1.8 to 2.5 copy button. 0

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

While 2.5" HDDs are more expensive per GB than 3.5" HDDs they do have some advantages for field use, particularly more shock resistance and, in most designs, better isolation from power issues. My plan is to use 3.5" drives in any reasonably controlled situation and the 2.5" drives in the Red Station module whenever mobility and power limitations are involved. Hard to justify the cost of 2.5" SSDs for most projects but its nice to have them as an option.
Horses for courses.

Cheers - #19

 

[Elsie N]

I would love to see a smart power station that had a small data router in it. All connected eSata. Have a 1.8 to 2.5 copy button. 0

+1 for that.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

There has been inquiry about some sort of direct patch topology in the past but the 1st Gen Red Stations are dependent on a computer. What would rock hard would be a second generation (or 3rd party) rig that would be all one piece like a Nexto with an on board battery, slot for 1.8" camera media and a slot/tray for 2.5" bare drives (HDD or SSD, your choice), simple GUI...

Cheers - #19

 

[Chris Ratledge]

While 2.5" HDDs are more expensive per GB than 3.5" HDDs they do have some advantages for field use..... My plan is to use 3.5" drives in any reasonably controlled situation and the 2.5" drives in the Red Station module whenever mobility and power limitations are involved.

Very good point, though unless truly run-and-gun, I've found 3.5" drives suitable for nearly all stuff I've done, and the emphasis has been more on capacity per budget. Still, this would be a good option if you were forced onto a boat, chopper, subway train, etc...

There has been inquiry about some sort of direct patch topology in the past but the 1st Gen Red Stations are dependent on a computer. What would rock hard would be a second generation (or 3rd party) rig that would be all one piece like a Nexto with an on board battery, slot for 1.8" camera media and a slot/tray for 2.5" bare drives (HDD or SSD, your choice), simple GUI...

I've seen but never used the Nexto units, but I don't know if I'd ever trust such a device entirely. I've had checksum-verified copies have playback problems after a reported successful copy from R3D DM in the past, and I inherently don't trust computers or stand-alone backup products 100%. I've had a P2 store do bad copies before with no reported error as well, for example. While 100% performance is probably an unrealistic expectation, I don't know what % would be acceptable to trust, I just know I'm not there yet!

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Jeffy's DIT bitch session #0113: People need to learn WTF a checksum is and how it applies. Just because you make a copy of your media and do a verify pass that creates a checksum, it does not mean you have valid camera files. All copies of footage should be visually inspected and verified *after* the copy and the checksum is created. Then, and only then, will you know that there is a valid copy and you that you have a matching checksum to assist in subsequent copies as you move forward.

A competent DIT maintains all their equipment and tests all their cables, readers and drives before starting any job. Most all RED footage copy errors that I have encountered can be attributed to faulty firewire cables or connections. All too often the FW800 CF readers bite the dust too and create erroneous copies, even reproducing the same errors on verify passes. Subsequently leading to corrupt footage logged and checksum files that do nothing but help guaranty you'll copy the corrupted data as it exists. eSATA is vulnerable too, but usually causes a fatal error in the transfer process if there's a faulty cable or connection.

 

[Elsie N]

Jeffy's DIT bitch session #0113: People need to learn WTF a checksum is and how it applies. Just because you make a copy of your media and do a verify pass that creates a checksum, it does not mean you have valid camera files. All copies of footage should be visually inspected and verified *after* the copy and the checksum is created. Then, and only then, will you know that there is a valid copy and you that you have a matching checksum to assist in subsequent copies as you move forward.

A competent DIT maintains all their equipment and tests all their cables, readers and drives before starting any job. Most all RED footage copy errors that I have encountered can be attributed to faulty firewire cables or connections. All too often the FW800 CF readers bite the dust too and create erroneous copies, even reproducing the same errors on verify passes. Subsequently leading to corrupt footage logged and checksum files that do nothing but help guaranty you'll copy the corrupted data as it exists. eSATA is vulnerable too, but usually causes a fatal error in the transfer process if there's a faulty cable or connection.

Jeff, some of us just have to take the chance. I will be willing to trust and not verify if I can get my SSDs back in my cameras quickly. And to date, I have never lost footage from either CF or Red Drive.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Some of us do have to take the chance. There is often not a way to visually verify every clip after offloading. And if you test all your equipment and maintain it well, there should not be any issues.

I have yet to encounter a bad copy or offload on any of my own equipment <knock wood>. I have had CF cards fail, HDDs fail (regularly), but it's just part of the deal and I'm ready to deal with it. So it's not a big deal. What gets me are all these "DIT's" running around offering data-centric workflow services without a solid foundation of general IT know-how. I wasn't trying to pick on anyone in this thread specifically when I brought up the checksum thing. It's just that corrupt footage does occur for one reason or another at times and a lot of producers are aware of this. We see a lot of people talking about verified copies and checksums these days, but there is a lot of misunderstanding about how those apply to the data migration process.

 

[Elsie N]

I see your point. I'm hoping that since RED pays such attention to high quality solutions, all their offloading options present and future will be error free.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Can't ever guaranty error free. But in the past, there was mention of onboard error checking and control for EPIC. I'm hoping this is still the case. If the EPIC can write to the SSDs with ECC or even generate a hash or checksum on the fly for offload/copy verification, that would be ideal and very awesome. That would probably get us as close to error-free as we can get.

 

[Brian Wells]

Now that the 1.8" SSD module and drives are available, why is the 2.5" Red Station Reader still listed in the Red store?
If RED doesn't sell 2.5" SSD drives, what's the point?
Or...will the Epic better handle the 2.5" SSD drives...thus I shouldn't waste my money buying a 1.8" system for my current Reds?
Please advise...

Hi Jeff,

2.5" SSD are basically a replacement for LaCie drives or G-Drives on your shoots. BUT, to take advantage of the speed, you need a full size tower Mac Pro.

If you copy a RED 1.8" SSD connected over eSATA to a 2.5" SSD using computer that can handle it (ie- a full size tower, not a laptop) then you can achieve data transfer speeds in excess of 200MB per second. This is roughly 4 times faster than offloading a RED DRIVE to a LaCie Rugged. BUT, you have to use a Mac Pro. The 2.5" SSD option offers essentially no speed difference on a laptop.

May be a little faster if you're only copying to one 2.5" SSD at a time. But, you always copy to two drives, so there's no advantage (on a laptop).... Hope this helps!

Now buy those 1.8" SSD's already!!!

Brian
"the guy who currently has 6 SSD's installed in his 4 Mac's and 2 more in OWC enclosures"