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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Apple/FCP6/4K workflow at NAB?

Corrado Silveri

Corrado Silveri

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I doubt "Extreme" will weigh in at $10K. This may be wishful thinking, but the whole Apple-video thing has always been about doing it so cheap and easily, that it's a pleasant surprise. I could be miles out here, but I imagine they want to make a product so appealing, that all 4K people will be drawn to them. There's a lot of 2K and 4K stuff happening, making the HDV revolution seem very old, and Apple need to take advantage of the latest revolution. The fact that Final Cut Pro 6 is so long overdue, means it has to be a major update. Fingers crossed.
 
It'd be nice to think that Apple was adopting a similar strategy to Red, afterall the ammount of computers they would shift to colleges/universities alone with a package vastly undercutting and bettering Avid would be a winner for them, and help them to push Avid out a bit.
 
If FCP EXTREME integrated a rock solid FCP hardware/software solution that guaranteed certain (bullet proof) realtime performance like Avid for 10k and supports the whole hardware/software system, I would jump on it.

Especially if it included hardware support for 4K, a brand new Media Manager and "Unity" like collaboration on X-raid without the use of 3rd party software, realtime animated alpha, could mix resolutions on the timeline (with realtime scaling and conversion), was truly frame accurate, AND had a big beautiful APPLE branded breakout box with every connection known to man...
 
With Premiere coming back to the Mac, and Avid being an excellent option for 4K, and 4K being the future, Apple must have a solution ready for us. Even if an Extreme version costs more than Pro, and even if it's $10K, it would be a bargain compared to other 4K solutions. But my hope is that they'll offer one version of Final Cut Pro which does everything, for a price comparable to previous releases. It's been said elsewhere that Red are a Mac-friendly company, so I'm not too worried. I think a cheap 4K Mac solution will show up at NAB.
 
I really really hope that they'll include Final Touch in the regular version. Maybe Final Touch 4K will be part of the bundle for 10 grand... now that would be something.
 
Final Touch 4K for under $10,000 is a wonderful idea, but I'd be amazed if they could pull that off...

With that said, Final Cut Pro must improve on Colour Correction. It's not worth using at present, and would just mash lovely Red footage in its current form. If they integrate quality colour correction into Final Cut Pro 6, I'd happily pay a lot more than $10,000.
 
I don't have any inside information, but personally I think the notion of a $10K version of FCP with custom hardware is a little nuts. Why would Apple invest the resources to do custom video processing hardware, when everything they're doing today in terms of graphics processing is designed around leveraging commodity GPUs? I suppose it's possible we might see some sort of bundle including a Mac Pro and a (very slightly) customized high-end graphics card, but I doubt we'll see even that, and I'd say there's almost no chance at all we'll see anything as exotic as real custom hardware.

The notion of a $10K software-only FCP also doesn't make a lot of sense. This is a very competitive market, and we're in a period of transition. If they can make a product that kills the competition, they're going to price for volume, not per-unit profits, because these features are going to end up in low-cost packages eventually anyway, and they can build a (bigger) following if they get there first.

Apple's approach to post production is not that dissimilar to RED's whole approach, actually, and for the same basic reason. Neither company has existing high-margin products to protect, so both are free to implement what the technology actually allows, instead of starting from an existing notion of selling at certain price points to certain customers the way some other companies seem to.

Apple also has an additional incentive to make stuff work on commonly deployed desktop hardware because that's what they sell. Making that hardware more attractive, while also improving margins by selling after-market products like Final Cut Pro, is a much more sound business decision for them than investing lots of money in products (e.g. high-priced industry-specific specialized hardware) that don't leverage what the company is already doing.
 
I believe the guys at Cineform are talking about 4K on Premiere Pro for closer to $2,000.
 
Brook Willard said:
I believe Think Secret estimated RED's price in the $200,000 range last year...
Click to expand...

They did. And in the very same article that they predicted FC Extreme at $10K.

I seriously doubt the FC Extreme edition... Makes absolutely no sense. A companion accelerator card does make sense, but I don't see it coming from Apple. More than likely, even if Apple offers it as a config option, it will come from an established vendor like AJA or DeckLink. I wouldn't even be surprised to see something from NewTek. I know that NewTek is trying to bring the VideoToaster [back] to the Mac platform. Although, the VT is in dire need of a hardware update and that hasn't happened yet, so...
 
Since Chris brought up commodity GPUs, I think 4K editing can be entirely possible on an upcoming 8-core (even a 4-core) Mac Pro system. Between the possiilities of Core Animation and other GPU acceleration abilities, there's no reason a new system can't cope with playback and edit of 4K material. I can handle 2 streams of 1080p on my G5 quad and 3+ on newer dual/quad PC systems. At least one stream of 4K should be do-able on my current hardware. The missing piece of the puzzle on this end is a way to display all those pixels. And no, I'm not buying a Sony 4K projector... ;)

Also, I don't see a $10K offering from Apple... Not when they have Adobe (and potentially CineForm along with them) stepping up to compete. Not only that, but Apple already slashed prices on Final Cut Studio and Shake this past year... Why go and price yourself out of the market? They need to come in cheap and blow Avid out of the water... Avid continues to dominate where they do because in many situations they're still the big name. They're the go-to provider. MC Adrenaline and other higher end Avid offerings do have their advantages, but IMO they're not worth the excessive price. ...I suppose I wouldn't mind so much if I had a Hollywood size budget and getting the job done on time and pleasing investors was more important than the price of the tools.
 
ChristopherKenworthy said:
Final Touch 4K for under $10,000 is a wonderful idea, but I'd be amazed if they could pull that off...

With that said, Final Cut Pro must improve on Colour Correction. It's not worth using at present, and would just mash lovely Red footage in its current form. If they integrate quality colour correction into Final Cut Pro 6, I'd happily pay a lot more than $10,000.
Click to expand...

I doubt anyone will be doing any serious colour correction of RED footage in an NLE.

AppliedVisual said:
I seriously doubt the FC Extreme edition... Makes absolutely no sense. A companion accelerator card does make sense, but I don't see it coming from Apple...
Click to expand...

I agree. They already have three video editing packages, and I doubt they need a fourth. They have one for the consumer (iMovie), one for semi-pro and students (Final Cut Express), and the Professional package.

-Stephen
 
Stephen Gentle said:
I doubt anyone will be doing any serious colour correction of RED footage in an NLE.
Click to expand...

It sure would be a lot more convenient in terms of workflow. I think it's inevitable that we'll ultimately see first-rate grading features right in NLE environments, or at least grading products from NLE vendors that tightly integrate with them.

I'm not sure if Apple has really had enough time to integrate the FinalTouch stuff for this upcoming version of Final Cut Studio, but their purchase of FinalTouch does seem to put them in a position to get there first.
 
Also, for anyone who doesn't know... Apple recently purchased Proximity, a company that develops a media asset management system that works with Final Cut Pro. It's pretty clear they're gearing up to go after Avid in more ways than one, but I think they're going to do it with a commodity-based platform and pricing consistent with their current products.
 
I'm trying our Magic Bullet Colorista at the mo and so far really darn impressed..

10k isn't far off, it all adds up

macpro with 6 gig and nvidia about 5k
4TB esata raid capable of 400Mbs 2k
(though they will want you to use x-raid)
monitors 1.5k
fcp 2k ?
Kona3 2k

speakers, leads etc..

hardware is there, software is where the concern is.

s
 
I don't believe in Final Cut extreme software. I think it is disinformation, could even be coming from Apple themselves, they are past masters at that. I reckon they will Shock and Awe with amazing new capabilities at the same old price point
 
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