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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Apple Color REDCODE plugin 4.0 beta

Graeme Nattress said:
Actually, for many reasons, you want to sharpen the image, not the raw. Sharpening in raw is not the best way to do things. I'm not at my mac with Color, so can't dig into this yet...

Graeme
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Very interesting! Thank you for clarifying this, Graeme. So, what exactly is REDCine-X / RocketCine-X doing that just looks so great?

- Jordan
 
Code is same, so it's most likely the downsampling.

Graeme
 
Jordan Livingston said:
That said, I can't see how the debayer engine could be "exactly the same," since Final Cut Pro and Color are governed by the REDCode system preference panel, which, as you know, tops out at "Half High" being the maximum quality option. Moreover, even the "Half High" results coming from Final Cut Pro and Color don't rival the "Half High" results out of REDCine-X in terms of sharpness and detail.
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One thing to remain aware of is that the setting on the Pref-Pane is for *half-rez decodes*. AKA when the system asks for an _H proxy, how does it handle it. Has (Or shouldn't, anyways) have an effect on full-rez decodes.

As far as the half-rez transcodes go, I couldn't say. I've honestly never done a half-rez transcode for RED material. My edit proxies are usually 1/4 (for 2K) or 1/8 (For 4K) for easy laptop-editing.


But it's important to point out that the REDCine-X results, as you just said, "looks good," and with the REDRocket card those results are also realtime. I don't want to wait longer for renders from Color that ultimately look 'worse.'
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No argument here. I personally don't have a Rocket yet, so I use the Color plugin, since I can get the results I'm looking for with a minimum of transcoding/conforming. If I had a Rocket, I'd probably use RC-X or Clipfinder+Flight Director to transcode, then grade those. Ultimately it's a question of what tools you've got at your disposal, I guess.



While it's true there are many methods of post sharpening, Color itself does not offer any "sharpness" or "detail" beyond what's found in the FX Room, which I believe applies processing AFTER the debayer, not actually to the RAW directly (I could be wrong here, but that's what it seems like). The sharpening FX plugin itself is not bad, but I'm wary of sharpening happening after the debayer / demosaic. I'd rather it was happening to the RAW first.
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I personally prefer to do my sharpening after the rest of my grading. Couldn't give you any scientific/mathematical/whatever reasons behind it. I just like the results better.

At the end of the day, you might be right that you can get better results out of the plug-ins with Color. It's also true that the debayering in Color is likely to improve dramatically with future software updates. However, my goal here is to be able to recommend a rock-solid workflow that works reliably today.

My clients are all precariously juggling time, quality, and of course, money. I have personally found that the best quality in the least amount of time and money comes from realtime dabayering to the deliverable size / ratio (i.e. 1920x1080 HD in ProRes4444) first, then color grading in REDColor / REDGamma (or REDColor / REDLog) in Color. This workflow has never yielded any complaints about sharpness and has always finished smoothly, without any 'Beta' plugins or glitches to worry about.
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I didn't necessarily mean to imply that I've gotten *better* results out of Color. Just *equivalent* results.

And again, I totally agree with you on the time/money/quality thing. It's the old triangle. Pick two, and such. Not having a Rocket, doing renders out of RC-X is just not really a workable solution for me. While all of my projects thus far have not been time-crunch material, I'm just not really willing to commit the time to those renders, when I can produce similar results using Color for about the same time commitment.
 
QUESTION for sweaty palmed first timer...Sorry if this is to basic. Considered self a tech savvy 5 years ago but new technology is way beyond me. Did the research, seemed to figure things out but just want to make sure since I’ve never worked with this crazy (and amazing 4K). Appreciate any advice I'm on the right path. Little budget let and beginning to do color on a Feature film witch footage was transcoded at 422 and wanting to go back to 4k files of course to finish. Using FCP7, with latest RED plugins loaded. As simple as possible here’s what have started to do….
1. Exporting XML in FCP
2. Using ClipFinder and running RUN CONFORM ON FCP XML FILE...this generates a new XML.
3. Importing new XML back into FCP
4. Reconnecting to F(ull) res Quicktime files in the original RED clip files.
5. Sending to Color.

I have the newest software so using new RED CS.

Questions...
Everyone refers to "back to R3D files" does that mean they are going back to the FULL RESOLTION PROXY in the RED clip folder (meaning in the folder there's R3D, F, H, M, P) or am I missing something and somehow they are using the files ending in .R3D?

12 bit/Floating? The only choice I have is floating in Color.

Thanks,
Nate
 
The choice of bit depths in Color depends on your graphics card, only ATI cards offer all versions.

And, yes, Color is using the original R3D file.
 
Julio Quintana said:
Can someone at RED please confirm this before I try it and screw up my FCS 2 setup?
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You're taking a risk with it working, however, if you follow the advice of backing up your library/frameworks folder, you should be able to test it and get back to 1 if it fails.
 
Uli Plank said:
The choice of bit depths in Color depends on your graphics card, only ATI cards offer all versions.

And, yes, Color is using the original R3D file.
Click to expand...

So it seems I should be using the actual R3D file. Humm, doesn't seem to show up in Color.

Currently the FCP and Color program only seem recognizes the MOV files in the.

I'm using
A001_C113_0724VU_F.MOV
but you are saying somehow the programs should recognize the
A001_C113_0724VU_>001.R3D

Is that correct?

Thanks
Nate
 
Nate.

What you are doing in this thread is called threadjacking. If you have a question that is not related to this thread then you should post your specific question in the APPLE WORKFLOW section. Also, maybe you could search the threads before asking.

David
 
Didn't know there was an actual name for it, "threadjacking" Sorry to ruffle your feathers. Will post on Apple Workflow.

Nate
 
filmmakernate said:
1. Exporting XML in FCP
2. Using ClipFinder and running RUN CONFORM ON FCP XML FILE...this generates a new XML.
3. Importing new XML back into FCP
4. Reconnecting to F(ull) res Quicktime files in the original RED clip files.
5. Sending to Color.
Click to expand...

This is a very smart, respectable workflow. This was the same workflow I used to conform to R3Ds in Color / Final Cut Pro. Now, however, after the offline creative editorial is locked, I'm currently prefer to go back to REDCine-X to generate new ProRes4444 selects in the deliverable size (i.e. 2K., HD, etc.). Again, this is because of my preference for REDCine-X to do the scaling and downsampling, rather than Color. The ProRes4444 transcodes will either have REDColor / REDGamma or REDColor / REDLog, depending on the DP's preference.

Questions...
Everyone refers to "back to R3D files" does that mean they are going back to the FULL RESOLTION PROXY in the RED clip folder (meaning in the folder there's R3D, F, H, M, P) or am I missing something and somehow they are using the files ending in .R3D?
Click to expand...

I went back to "full" myself, but I think there is actually no difference other than the metadata that sets your sequence dimensions for you in FCP / Color. I know that neither FCP nor Color will display the full 4K dimensions, so even "full" results in a 2K sequence.

12 bit/Floating? The only choice I have is floating in Color.
Click to expand...

The choices you have are GPU-dependant. So, depending on your graphics card, you will have more or fewer choices, and your render quality / speed will vary. Personally, I prefer to work in Floating. I have always been told this is the best possible quality. Occasionally, I have worked on jobs for broadcast that used hardware scopes to strictly monitor broadcast safe levels, and in this case, I've been asked to work in 10-bit, but I think this is probably unnecessary given that I obviously ensure my color grading is within broadcast safe limits anyway.

- Jordan
 
All i get is green!!!! when I load the proxies in it just shows up as green? whats going on
 
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