Anything cheaper/comparable to the Miller Compass 25 Tripod Head?

[Chris McKechnie]

Trying to find a good head that's similar to this one, but not as expensive. I know that it's probably hard to come by. Was thinking about the Cartoni FocusHD Head, but it only supports 26lbs, and that has me a bit worried with an Epic, MB, FF, RPP, etc.

Thoughts, suggestions?

 

[Jan Reichle]

I love my Compass 25. Remember that the tripod will last longer than the camera.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

I've heard good things about the FocusHD head. I mean to test one as a purchase option. There are none I know of locally, so I have a trip planed to NYC.

I have been leaning towards Sachtler Video 15 or Video 20 right now in my rentals though.

When Ketch was here he had a new Compass 25 with his Epic. We had that rigged with lenses from the Master Primes to the 300mm RPP and the 18-85 RPZ. At the time we had Red Bricks (or some other V-Lock bricks ... memory is fuzzy on that point)

The point is that the Epic is VERY light and you can definitely support it within the bounds of these light duty heads, even with a fair bit of glass on them.

Once we all are using RedVolts, it will be an even lighter package. Mostly I work with the camera using a RedPro Touch 5" and a SmallDP or Sound Devices PIX 240. Works like a dream with these relatively lightweight heads.

I'd only consider heavier heads if you are using much bigger, heavier lenses or focal lengths greater than 300mm with some regularity.

Coming back to the FocusHD head ... total weight capacity worries me far less at 26 lbs (versus 30 for the Video 15 and Compass 25) than its fluidity and its ability to dampen motion when needed.

You should also look at the Manfrotto options in that price range. The 509HD head and the 526 head. I started with a Manfrotto head ... and I kind of hate it. It has given me 11 years of service though, way more than paying itself off, so I shouldn't be too hard on them.

That last bit is important ... even a relatively crappy head will be with you for a good while, far longer than a camera. (I've used 9 different cameras with my Manfrotto, from an XL-1 to a DSLR to an Epic-X!)

 

[Satsuki Murashige]

I'm not a huge fan of the Focus HD head. The zero drag is very stiff compared to the old Focus, which I think is a great head. A DP friend of mine has one and sent it in for service for just this reason. Cartoni sent it back saying it was within specs. So I guess its a design choice. The regular Focus only supports up to 22lbs though.

 

[Lee Saxon]

Coming back to the FocusHD head ... total weight capacity worries me far less at 26 lbs (versus 30 for the Video 15 and Compass 25) than its fluidity and its ability to dampen motion when needed.

You should also look at the Manfrotto options in that price range. The 509HD head and the 526 head.

I haven't used the $5000 heads, but I find the fluidity to be excellent and the drag to be more than sufficient. Absolutely annihilates the 504HD, the little brother of that 509HD (although I haven't used the 509, it looks like the same design scaled up).

I'm not a huge fan of the Focus HD head. The zero drag is very stiff...

I just checked my Focus HD and don't agree at all. I think it's nicely damped, almost-but-not-quite stiff enough that the head could be used at zero drag.

However, the 504HD at MAX drag is about as stiff as the Focus HD at ZERO, so I guess there are some who want a much more "fluid" head than I do....

 

[Satsuki Murashige]

I just checked my Focus HD and don't agree at all. I think it's nicely damped, almost-but-not-quite stiff enough that the head could be used at zero drag.

However, the 504HD at MAX drag is about as stiff as the Focus HD at ZERO, so I guess there are some who want a much more "fluid" head than I do....

Well, zero drag on a head is not supposed to be dampened at all. It should be totally loose, almost frictionless. Nobody uses zero drag while shooting unless they are doing whip pans. The idea is to use the drag settings to finely tune the resistance. I happen to like settings between 1-2, others like 4-5. Focus HD zero drag feels like 3-4 on an OConnor or Sachtler to me. Not so good with a light camera like DSLR.

 

[Andy Roberts]

The Compass 25 is worth the money... on Manfrotto 536 Sticks.

 

[Chris McKechnie]

Yea Compass 25 it is then.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Well, zero drag on a head is not supposed to be dampened at all. It should be totally loose, almost frictionless. Nobody uses zero drag while shooting unless they are doing whip pans. The idea is to use the drag settings to finely tune the resistance. I happen to like settings between 1-2, others like 4-5. Focus HD zero drag feels like 3-4 on an OConnor or Sachtler to me. Not so good with a light camera like DSLR.

Well, as a "nobody" I am going to disagree. Nitpick really, but the nit I am picking is pretty important ... well at least to me, but hey I'm nobody.

I like to shoot most everything on very lightly damped settings, I usually work between 0 and 3 on the Sachtler heads, and very often at 0.

Zero drag should still smooth out your movements and give you some acceleration damping ... just not much at all. Again, with the Sachtler I tend to grip the pan handle with my entire hand at drag settings 3 and higher. By contrast, and for my normal working preference, i control the head with just fingertips at lower settings most of the time.

That fingertip technique of mine is actually bad form. If I had a camera mounted mic, you'd probably get all sorts of handling noise. As an ENG user I'd probably put a Sachtler head up to 3-4 and use my whole hand exactly as you suggest is appropriate.

As to the FocusHD ... I'm disappointed to hear this evaluation of yours. If it's 0 setting is really equivalent to a Sachtler at 3-4 then its about as useless to me as antlers on a sponge.

Coming back top the Compass 25 and the Sachtlers I've been talking about ... they really are worth it. In fact, I think a good tripod and head are more important than whatever camera you put up on the support.

 

[Satsuki Murashige]

Well, as a "nobody" I am going to disagree. Nitpick really, but the nit I am picking is pretty important ... well at least to me, but hey I'm nobody.

To each their own I guess

Again, with the Sachtler I tend to grip the pan handle with my entire hand at drag settings 3 and higher. By contrast, and for my normal working preference, i control the head with just fingertips at lower settings most of the time.

That's what I do as well, finger tips on the head at low drag. That's why I was so down on the HD head, I couldn't operate that way.

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

To each their own I guess


That's what I do as well, finger tips on the head at low drag. That's why I was so down on the HD head, I couldn't operate that way.

Ah ... so we are aggressively agreeing then? Cool.

I'm still going to look at the Focus HD head myself, but now I'm much less excited about it based on what you say. I'm more likely to just buy a Sachtler. I'll reevaluate the Compass 25, but I don't think it was quite as free moving as I like. The O'Connor is just as good as the Sachtler, but until you put a decent load on it it fights you a bit. I need to support anything from a relatively bare DSLR or a GoPro to fairly well loaded Epic ... Sachtler seems to be the ticket for me. YMMV