anyone teaching grading on redcine?

[paulherrin]

i'm going to add that studying compositing techniques is extremely helpful... it's essentially the same stuff but more nuanced and usually (sometimes totally not, though) more creative as far as decision-making power. i actually approached coloring from my training as a compositor - it's helped me have a more creative outlet while still helping on other people's projects. one of these days maybe i'll go pro if i have the opportunity, but i'm really resistant to only doing one task of anything... which is why i've been bouncing around into all different kinds of areas - apparently following your heart isn't always the same as raking in cash. but i digress, there's certainly something to be said about the experience and expertise of somebody that just colors and does it a lot. at the very least there's a speed factor, but more than that there's a fine-tuned eye element, and a deep understanding of fixing even the most problem shots in the best way. a lot of it is arguably very subtle to the untrained eye. i've been lucky enough to shadow a few colorists, and even luckier to listen and learn a bit from some of the cats that hang out here.

 

[Marc Wielage]

Believe me I went after some of the best colorist on the web and they all told me the same thing... a little contrast, a little saturation, a little grain, there's no one way, every frame is treated differently, it's all a matter of taste, practice, yada. They all say the same thing. Initially, I thought the artist simply didn't want to share their "tricks", but I've come to realize they were telling me the truth all along. I find the more I grade, the more I get those precious "a-ha" moments which leads to "ooooh ahhhhh" moments. This is the psychology and intuition that's hard to teach.

Hurkman is quick to point out something that took me 10 years to figure out back in the 1980s: sometimes, you work your way through a piece, realize you're in the wrong direction, and you have to be willing to throw out what you've done before and start over from scratch. You have to have the courage to be bold, know in your gut when it's right, and not be willing to accept an image that's merely "good enough."

What is true in a client session is that speed is of the essence, and a great colorist knows how to get where he or she is going in a fraction of the time of an amateur. Knowing the shortcuts, having a library of different looks, being able to give the client a half dozen different ideas to mull over, solving photographic issues in a constructive way... that's the kind of thing that takes many, many years to learn.

I agree with Paul above that having a good working knowledge of basic VFX and compositing techniques can be beneficial, especially when you have to use a radical approach to solve a visual challenge. For example, when you run into clipped skies, there's a variety of things you can do to coax missing detail back into the picture, not all of which are intuitive.

 

[Florian Stadler]

Step 1
Abandon Redcine for a more holistic platform - Resolve is hard to overlook

Step 2
Immerse yourself in the classical arts: composition, color theory, aesthetics

Step 3
Read http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0918172020

Step 4
Read http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0240809904

Step 5
Practise

Step 6
Rinse & Repeat

Step 7
Clear your mind of all you know and get creative

Step 8
Start from scratch

Step 9
Find all that you missed

Step 10
Contemplate

Step 11
Put it all together

Step 12
Be


. Good luck

 

[jake blackstone]

It's always strange to read about learning to grade with RCX. RCX is not grading software. It's a good software for just Red dailies or for quick reviewing of just the Red material. That's it.
Why would anyone invest time learning software, that does pretty much nothing for any material shot with any camera other than Red, while lacking any kind of finesse? Can anyone in today's market afford to work with just Red acquired material? Do you think working without LOG grading capabilities, keying, windowing and an ability to properly monitor something like RLF gamma is going to fly? Get on the Resolve and stop screwing around with RCX.
Two years ago, when Resolve on a Mac for a $1k was just announced I predicted, that it will become the Photoshop of color grading. If you're a photographer, you use Photoshop, if you work with video, you need to start using Resolve...

 

[Matthew Scott]

It's always strange to read about learning to grade with RCX. RCX is not grading software. It's a good software for just Red dailies or for quick reviewing of just the Red material. That's it.
Why would anyone invest time learning software, that does pretty much nothing for any material shot with any camera other than Red, while lacking any kind of finesse? Can anyone in today's market afford to work with just Red acquired material? Do you think working without LOG grading capabilities, keying, windowing and an ability to properly monitor something like RLF gamma is going to fly? Get on the Resolve and stop screwing around with RCX.
Two years ago, when Resolve on a Mac for a $1k was just announced I predicted, that it will become the Photoshop of color grading. If you're a photographer, you use Photoshop, if you work with video, you need to start using Resolve...

I completely agree, but why not learn both? Dailies and quick looks without resolve are a great way to get instant gratification and put Directors minds at ease. But basically, if one was to take your advice and just learn resolve, they would have enough skills to stroll through RCX anyway I guess.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

I want the right vs wrong, nice vs beautiful psychological eye intuition side

Your desire is to be able to reason something which is beyond it. Quantify what is a matter of feeling.
Seeking outside what can only be developed from within...

 

[Eric Santiago]

Love this thread

 

[Antony M]

I highly recommend "The Art and Technique of Digital Color Correction" by Steve Hulfish

Plenty of discussion with top colourists and examples of how to use different systems.

 

[Brian Merlen]

+1 on the LOVE this thread! I have been meaning to up my coloring game as well, some great advice in here! PS resolve is super intensive to run, so that might be a reason to stick to Redcine if you have a bum machine (like me at home). But power windows is the key to resolve, you don't get those in Redcine and without power windows and tracking you can't ever change parts of an image, but just play with the whole frame while in Redcine. For this alone, it can never take the place of Resolve. I am going to eventually move into Resolve when I get a better workstation at home, but for now the only thing I use it on is carpets lol (I have been waiting for an opportunity to make that joke thanks guys)! So no harm in learning both, I use redcine constantly on sets, even if its just playback or scrubbing and not always making dailies its a good tool when needed

 

[paulherrin]

Step 1
Abandon Redcine for a more holistic platform - Resolve is hard to overlook

Step 2
Immerse yourself in the classical arts: composition, color theory, aesthetics

Step 3
Read http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0918172020

Step 4
Read http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0240809904

Step 5
Practise

Step 6
Rinse & Repeat

Step 7
Clear your mind of all you know and get creative

Step 8
Start from scratch

Step 9
Find all that you missed

Step 10
Contemplate

Step 11
Put it all together

Step 12
Be


. Good luck

great 12 step program you got there

can you tell us a little bit about 'in praise of shadows'?

+1 on hullfish, art/tech of cc

I highly recommend "The Art and Technique of Digital Color Correction" by Steve Hulfish

Plenty of discussion with top colourists and examples of how to use different systems.

 

[Dr. Sassi]

Please note that Hulfish has a 2012 edition (the links go to the 2008 edition) and Hurkman is in the process to release a new edition soon.

Love the thread here, thanks for the input everyone.

 

[James Brundige]

It's always strange to read about learning to grade with RCX. RCX is not grading software. It's a good software for just Red dailies or for quick reviewing of just the Red material. That's it.
Why would anyone invest time learning software, that does pretty much nothing for any material shot with any camera other than Red, while lacking any kind of finesse? Can anyone in today's market afford to work with just Red acquired material? Do you think working without LOG grading capabilities, keying, windowing and an ability to properly monitor something like RLF gamma is going to fly? Get on the Resolve and stop screwing around with RCX.
Two years ago, when Resolve on a Mac for a $1k was just announced I predicted, that it will become the Photoshop of color grading. If you're a photographer, you use Photoshop, if you work with video, you need to start using Resolve...

Clearly you are a colorist. I wish I had one nearby. But many of us have no other option but RCX. I use a colorist for broadcast, but for editorial, I need a good looking "one light" that I can share with execs and producers until final broadcast grading. I flew to LA and took a Reducation post production course, hoping to learn grading in RCX, but there was no instruction in grading per se, just about workflow. One good session on preparing for grading, but I can't go through editorial with washed out low contrast footage.

I'll follow up on some suggestions in this thread, but a simple RCX tutorial in how to get a decent looking output for us non-colorists would be great.

 

[Scott Crawley]

The OP asked specifically about grading in RCX. Mark, Jake and others seem just to be making the distinction between a one light and actual grading, while pointing out that RCX is a one light tool and not a grading app. I don't get the impression that your points are at odds with theirs.

Clearly you are a colorist. I wish I had one nearby. But many of us have no other option but RCX. I use a colorist for broadcast, but for editorial, I need a good looking "one light" that I can share with execs and producers until final broadcast grading. I flew to LA and took a Reducation post production course, hoping to learn grading in RCX, but there was no instruction in grading per se, just about workflow. One good session on preparing for grading, but I can't go through editorial with washed out low contrast footage.

This is a good suggestion and possibly an opportunity for a Colorist among us to build bridges and become an ally and resource to the DP's here. That kind of relationship can lead to solid, repeat business. (Just ask Michael Cioni.) Who is up for some of that?

I'll follow up on some suggestions in this thread, but a simple RCX tutorial in how to get a decent looking output for us non-colorists would be great.

 

[Brian Merlen]

Clearly you are a colorist. I wish I had one nearby. But many of us have no other option but RCX. I use a colorist for broadcast, but for editorial, I need a good looking "one light" that I can share with execs and producers until final broadcast grading. I flew to LA and took a Reducation post production course, hoping to learn grading in RCX, but there was no instruction in grading per se, just about workflow. One good session on preparing for grading, but I can't go through editorial with washed out low contrast footage.

I'll follow up on some suggestions in this thread, but a simple RCX tutorial in how to get a decent looking output for us non-colorists would be great.

bump the contrast up, and if you still think its washed out still, as in whole frame is over exposed, you can bump it down exposure wise, but sometimes adjusting just the contrast will result in good one lights. learn the entire tool set in redcine, its a good way to start out doing grading since its not over the top like resolve, so don't get flustered. There really ain't a lot of control in redcine, so its a good starting point. your doing stuff to a whole frame, so without power windows and tracking you can only do so much PS make sure your exports aren't set up to auto correct gamma either...

 

[James Brundige]

bump the contrast up, and if you still think its washed out still, as in whole frame is over exposed, you can bump it down exposure wise, but sometimes adjusting just the contrast will result in good one lights. learn the entire tool set in redcine, its a good way to start out doing grading since its not over the top like resolve, so don't get flustered. There really ain't a lot of control in redcine, so its a good starting point. your doing stuff to a whole frame, so without power windows and tracking you can only do so much PS make sure your exports aren't set up to auto correct gamma either...

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. What I was attempting to say (not very clearly) was that the instruction we received from Michael Cioni at Reducation was about how to create a look that was good to take to a color facility. That film log look is very low con (trying to preserve details for the colorist to work with), and not what I can use for editorial.

The one light's I make are occasionally very good, but always inconsistent. I would be great to spend some time with the resources in this thread, but I've got a show to cut, and a simple tutorial would be a really nice asset.

 

[Eric Santiago]

I welcome anyone to come up with a Video Tutorial.

I use it enough so paying for that is a no brainer for me.

 

[Brian Merlen]

I will get started on a tutorial, will hopefully turn it into a red centric series of sorts...

 

[Eric Santiago]

I will get started on a tutorial, will hopefully turn it into a red centric series of sorts...

Please that would be awesome.

I too am in the dark with some of the options in RCXPro e.g. the S-Curve...the biggest myth since the G-Spot

 

[Corey_O]

Just trying to help

Just trying to help

But many of us have no other option but RCX. I use a colorist for broadcast, but for editorial, I need a good looking "one light" that I can share with execs and producers until final broadcast grading. I flew to LA and took a Reducation post production course, hoping to learn grading in RCX, but there was no instruction in grading per se, just about workflow. One good session on preparing for grading, but I can't go through editorial with washed out low contrast footage.

I'll follow up on some suggestions in this thread, but a simple RCX tutorial in how to get a decent looking output for us non-colorists would be great.

James,

Here is my 2cents.............

If your trying to deliver dailies that have no clear instructions or direction i.e. look of some type from a DP, I've found the quickest safest way to proceed is to balance blacks, balance whites, balance greys. Then proceed to contrast.

You try to avoid colorcast and clipping in whites and blacks. Straightforward and technical. It helps if you understand how to use scopes. I suggest this video by Steve Hullfish.

 

[James Brundige]

Thanks, Corey, good video