anyone ever captured through mojo with a red scarlet?

[Brian Merlen]

we are taking the hd sdi cords and routing them to a few monitors and then to the avid mojo. on the mojo preview window we are getting some weird horizontal lines in the frame, as though something isn't syncing right. we have tried various frame rates/aspect ratios and various output codecs with no success so far. has anyone ever captured like this before and can give me some advice? thanks, much appreciated!

 

[MichaelP]

If you are referring to the GUI screen (source/record) monitor, that is an issue between the graphics card, sync, memory, and the Media Composer itself. Open the Full Screen Monitor settings and set the vertical sync box to see if that helps, but that may only affect full screen. If not, perhaps there is a sync issue or problem with the router or splitter being used for the multiple feeds.

Michael

 

[Brian Merlen]

Thanks, I sent what you said to the IT guys. Still haven't resolved our issue though. The same bnc cables work fine on the pix240. They even ordered a lemo thinking sync could fix the mojo, no such luck. We also tried running it using hdmi instead and still had the same issue. The difficulty is we want to Log the clips in avid in real time as we go along on the shoot and the pix240 doesn't really help significantly because its the wrong dnx hd (we want 115) and the wrong container .mov so its really throwing a wrench into the workflow. We are getting in a blackmagic hyperdeck studio next week to see if that can help speed things up since it does MXF.

Our DP thinks it could be a firmware issue with either the scarlet or the mojo, because he claimed this same set up worked for him previously but red and avid deny that is the cause of the problem from what I was told. We tried a nitris and a different mojo but had the same issue. We appreciate any advice anyone can throw us, thanks

 

[MichaelP]

If you are logging on the fly from an HDSDI, I don't believe the Avid MC will decode the filename from the stream in order to match the timecode to the file. Also, merging in Avid is quite strict if you want to merge the logging info back to the actual files if used in editorial - source, START (TC) and END (TC) have t match exactly. For logging, you can always "link to: via AMA to the .mov clips from the Pix, but that is an "after the fact" logging process. Have you looked at ScriptE for on set continuity and notes?

Michael

 

[Brian Merlen]

No I hadn't looked at scriptE, I just checked it out.

Essentially we are trying to log AND capture into avid on the fly, our deliverable doesn't need red raw 3,4, or 5k. We simply want dnxhd115 mxf files in 1080, logged and captured into avid in the proper folders/bins for organization purposes for the editors.

We rented a Pix240 only because the mojo wasn't working and we only have one redmag and aren't looking for that kind of quality or data storage needs. The Pix is going back to the rental house monday and we are going to be using a Blackmagic hyperdeck studio to record from now on until we can get the mojo working for log and capture, but the issue remains how do we log the clip names in a way to differentiate shots for the post guys in real time with such a small crew without slowing down the shoot. The on set crew consists of a Director, DP, AC, and myself as DIT/DMT. I have been taking hand written notes for takes and transcribing them after the shoot but the post guys ideally want the stuff coming in at dnxhd115 mxf files labeled accordingly in bins/folders/clips inside avid to make stuff easier on them. I know you can label stuff using the camera menu but they don't want to slow down the shooting to label stuff every couple times they roll and without a working mojo to log and capture on; the post guys are having a tough time trying to match my transcribed notes with the 200 shots we give them a day (in the wrong wrapper and mb/s).

What we really want is the mojo to work, so I can get stuff into the proper bins and they can turn it around, in real time. The BNC cables and HDMI cables work for the pix240, and they will hopefully work on the hyperdeck studio, but for some reason they won't work on the mojo. Its driving IT and myself nuts trying to figure out what the problem is, and the IT guys know way more about avid then myself, I just feel compelled to try and find an answer to help remedy this if I can manage to do so. Thanks

 

[MichaelP]

I am assuming the Mojo works in other scenarios? If on version 6, you could try one of the lower cost AJA or Blackmagic I/O cards to see if that works for capture.

Michael

 

[Brian Merlen]

Yes the mojo is supposedly functional according to IT, and just in case we switched it out with another one, and a nitris and still have the same issues on all the devices. Yes we are using MC6 so third party capture cards are a viable alternative. The blackmagic hyperdeck is already ordered and I am not in charge of purchasing decisions, but will offer the suggestion about the capture cards.

At this point we have bought almost every product black magic makes trying to figure this out. I wish I knew more about Avid so I could save the day for them, and have been asking around to anyone I know that might be able to help. I appreciate your advice though and will keep trying to diagnose the problem and will post updates as things hopefully start to come together for us. At the very least the hyperdeck does mxf so that is some progress. Though a working capture card that can log AND capture right into avid would be ideal so I can get the post guys what they want codec and labeling wise

 

[MichaelP]

Could it be a P versus PsF issue on the signal being sent to the Mojo? Monitors tend to like P better, while MC, decks and such use PsF.

Michael

 

[Brian Merlen]

IT already was looking into that lead, that could very well be what the issue is but we haven't yet quite nailed it yet. I will let you know once we nail it. I have been sitting around thinking about options all day long, as surely the IT guys must be doing as well. At this point we are considering trying to use the black magic hyperdeck studio we are getting on monday with the rs422 port to try and see if we can either log or use timecode to help set up some sort of clip organization strategy. I must admit all of this is new to me since I always have used the redmags up until now, so I am having to absorb a lot of third party device specs/interfaces and whatnot at once and its slightly overwhelming but I really authentically appreciate your help and will let you know if we ever get a viable strategy for this particular workflow to function in the way we are trying.

 

[MichaelP]

Have you tried a single connection from camera to Mojo first, then loop out of there to all the monitors? It may need a D/A, but at least the first and direct connection from camera will be to the Mojo.

Michael

 

[Brian Merlen]

Supposedly the mojo and nitris cant do true 24p is what i am being told... that it really does PsF despite claims it does true 24p. I hope either the kona, or black magic solution will work for us. Or that we find a work around with the hyperdeck.

 

[MichaelP]

When 24p is being referenced, it usually means editorial at 24.000fps progressively (all effect and such are frame-based). I/O for decks and such have always been PsF legacy wise and that is what is expected by the hardware. v6 does have some switch somewhere to output as P (for monitoring) versus PsF, but I am unsure about capture, but my feeling would be it still expects PsF.

Michael

 

[Brian Merlen]

Using the blackmagic multibridge pro we are feeding directly into avid logging and capturing in real time despite the P vs PsF issue. So essentially the workflow is solved and functional now. Thanks for all your help!

 

[MichaelP]

Excellent! I wonder if it is converting from P to PsF or not. I'll have to look into that.

Michael

 

[Brian Merlen]

We are noticing a lot of tearing on the pans and tilts in the deliverables to the client. The DP suspects it might be from the P to PsF conversion. The weird thing is it happens even on the Red Mag stuff we shot. The Red Mag shots are usually for frame rates the HD-SDI wouldn't support (overcranking to various FPS). So we aren't sure what is causing the tearing, youtube, the PsF conversion, the output settings for the post guys, the RedcineX Pro settings for the Red Mags. Perhaps the Redmag stuff tears because its put in the same timeline as the PsF footage? Do you know how Avid interprets the PsF? I was reading about PsF on some other site and it said some NLE's interpret it as interlaced, which also might explain the pans/tilts tearing.

Michael you have been so helpful I cannot begin to thank you for your insights, but you think you can take a look at this link and give me your proverbial two cents? The "recipes in motion" part is specifically our stuff we did for them (on Scarlet), the link is directly to the index of our stuff. Or if anyone else feels like throwing me a bone on this subject I am all ears. I just want to make sure we can get rid of the tearing tilts and pans.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9BD6DD4F9D555487&feature=plcp

 

[MichaelP]

Brian -

There should be no difference between a PsF capture or bring in full progressive material via an import since PsF is really more how the frames are stored for transport. Frame splits odd/even on equipment that was originally built for interlace materiel. If you look at the original redmag material in REDCINE X, do you see a similar tearing in the material?

Michael

 

[Brian Merlen]

No its not in Redcine, I think its caused by the compression settings of the deliverable (specified by the client). The clients happy, the DP, not so much...

 

[MichaelP]

Is the compression setting throwing away 1/2 frame (1 field)? That would be strange for progressive encoding... strange.

Michael

 

[Brian Merlen]

The editors are making MP4's that are only 200mb's for delivery. I think that is why the final images are so terrible, relative to the less compressed acquisition formats. The DP had me talk to post about the issue but they assure us the client specified the delivery format and size and is thrilled with it. To the untrained eye, for online content it looks fine I suppose, plus most people will watch this on smart phones and tablets, so looking at the defects on huge desktop monitors might be the wrong way to QC for it.

 

[Björn Benckert]

My guess as stated above: the temporary P versus PsF issue on the signal. Red does PsF, not liked by so many recorders or converters... I think we solved it with a black magic up down cross converter as the first thing on the chain after the camera. Setting this converter to 1080P output will make the signal readable for your gear.

Im not 100% sure of the above but we ran into the same thing trying to go trough our milo mixer and then pass on trough some Aja converters and out in FW and MXO2Min to PC Express and thunderbolt....

not a single one of those paths worked until we got the up/Down/cross...