Anybody use Miller tripods and heads?

[Rob Anderson]

Before upgrading to the Skyline 70, this was shot on our Arrow 55. Even with a much heavier lens like an Angenieux, the head performed wonderfully. Very solid and stable. Good fluid system. Very glad to have had your help Steve, with both the Arrow 55 recommendation and the Skyline 70!

http://www.blackwoodcinema.com

 

[John P. Murray]

Rob, I am curious why you upgraded to the Skyline 70 and how it compares to the Arrow 55?

I too have been looking for a new tripod and I am looking at the Miller line. I would need to put a scarlet with an ARRI Alura lens on it (around 40lbs at least by the time everything is on it). The main use would be for smaller independent feature/dramatic work + some smaller promo videos.

I like the reduced physical weight of the Arrow 55. I do not normally have a full camera crew and mobility is important. But I would normally always over spec my tripod to make sure it will work reliably and well (making me wonder if the Skyline 70 would be the better option).

Thank-you for any light you can shed on the subject.

 

[Karl Kim]

If a heavier head can be adjusted to carry a light load, it's almost always smoother. The other aspect is support- if you tighten up the drag for tilt and pan the head can slip in the bowl. I've had this happen many times on 100mm bowls, and also on 150mm bowl tripods. There is a reason outside of tradition that the Mitchell mount is industry standard on larger shoots. By the time an Epic/ F55/ Alexa is kitted out, it is HEAVY and cumbersome.

Be careful about stated "capacity" of heads. For example, I used to own both the Miller 55 and O'Connor 1030HDS and we used them side by side on a 128 day shoot (TV show). The Miller had a higher "rated" weight capacity, but the O'Connor was smoother and more stable with heavy loads and long lenses (like 600mm telephotos and 16 lb zooms- for narrative work).

For an operator the "feel" of a head is very important. As an owner op you have to decide the price/ performance issue. Personally I prefer the O'Connor feel. There is a reason outside of tradition that in the USA, O'Connor is the industry standard on larger shoots. Some ops prefer different heads, and it's up to the producer to provide what is best for the show. However as an owner/op I'm eyeing the Miller Skyline 70 Cine because of the value it represents. Miller vs Sachtler- that makes no difference to me as an operator so as an owner I'd buy the cheaper unit. Miller vs O'Connor- well there is a big price difference so I weigh the pros and cons of each vs price.

If you normally have at least a 1st AC the weight/ size difference between the 55 and 70 is negligible. If you fly a lot with your gear and often have to solo it you may want the smallest, lightest setup that does the job. Another thing to consider- as a dp and camera op (LOcal 600) I've had to work with poorly maintained gear from rental houses. Like stiff and jerky 2575 heads, sticky Ronford sliders, etc. On jobs you can usually bring on your own support, so the 70 head will support a wider range of setups than the 55. And your own Skyline 70 may be smoother than that rental house 2575.

 

[Hudson Tanimoto]

Arrow 55 head and 2-stage HD carbon legs. Feels rock solid, and with a fully kitted Epic the head is only on 1 or 2 on the counterbalance.

 

[Will Keir]

Never used them but I heard they are very good. Wondering about support.

 

[George Su]

I've been using a Sachtler Video 20p, holds up well. can't beat the sachlter eng CF legs with middle spreaders for quick setups.

 

[Hudson Tanimoto]

Wondering about support.

I can only speak for the Sydney service center, of which the results are very good but seem to be a little understaffed of late (taking a few weeks to carry out repairs) - I understand they have offices across the US and UK for service and support.

 

[Steve Gibby]

Even saw an article about somebody using it with a 3D beamsplitter system.

Yup - I wrote the article you saw about testing out our 3D Epic/Screen Plane rig on a Miller Compass 25/ Solo CF leg system. The Epic 3D rig weighed 42 pounds, and the Compass 25 head is rated for a maximum head load of 31 pounds. The head performed perfectly under the overload.

The article first appeared last year in Focus magazine, and can now be found on the Miller web site, in their Sharpshooters section via this link:
http://www.millertripods.com/sharpshooters_details.html?type=story&id=196

I own and regularly use the following Miller tripod systems: Skyline 70/HD 2-Stage CF legs, Arrow 55 with HD-2-stage CF, Sprinter II CF, and Solo 1505 spreader-less CF, Compass 25 which shares the legs with the Arrow 55 (both are 100mm bowl), and Compass 15/Solo spreader-less CF legs. I've previously owned and used high end head/legs combos from every major manufacturer - Sachtler, O'Connor, Vinten, etc.

In my experience Miller is very conservative when they set the load limits for their head/legs combos - as you can see from the linked article above. On my Compass 25 I've used head loads ranging from 7 pounds up to 42 pounds, even though the head is rated for 9.9 to 30.9 pounds, and the head performed perfectly. On my Arrow 55 (and Arrow HD) I've used head loads ranging from 8 pounds up to 58 pounds, and the head performed perfect - even though the head is rated by Miller for 22 pounds up to 55 pounds.

I've attached some pics to illustrate the point. One pic shows me shooting pro surfing in Hawaii with a 58 pound head load (Red One/Angenieux 24-290) on my Arrow HD (predecessor of the Arrow 55 head). Another shows me with a 8 pound head load (Canon 24-70, side handle, Redvolt batteries) on my Arrow 55 as I was shooting pro snowboarding in the Austrian Alps. Another shows me with a 6.5 pound head load on my Arrow 15 as I shot a sunrise in Belize. Another shot from this past weekend shows me using a 22 pound head load (Sony F55, Fujinon Cabrio 19-90) on my Arrow 55 as I shot Jeeps bounding over sand dunes. Another shot shows a 9 pound head load (Epic, 5" LCD, Canon 70-200) on my Compass 25.

As they say, "Horses for courses" - and the Miller head/legs combos usually limit your need (and expense) to just one "horse", or possibly two if you shoot everything from a DSLR up to a loaded Epic, F55, etc. You get the idea - Miller heads keep their super-smooth fluid action through a huge range of head loads, and they're very easy to adjust for each head load and shooting scenario.

Daniel (original poster on this thread), you posted that you're looking for a lightweight tripod system because you do a lot of field stuff outdoors, and you asked about the Miller Compass 25 - welcome to my world! All the work me and my crews do is indie, non-union (by choice), mobile hybrid EFP in shooting style (rarely use a MB or FF, and never use a 1st AC), using a wide variety of head loads, a big range of cameras and lenses, and we need tripod head and leg combos that are rugged, lightweight, and have absolutely smooth head action. But I don't just do small crew work - I've recently been DP for some huge crew, international music productions too, using up to ten Red cameras simultaneously.

As mentioned, over a 34 year career in this industry I've used head/leg combos from all the major manufacturers. All of them make quality products - but for my end of the industry doing the type of non-union, super mobile work I itemized above, all I've used for the past seven years now are Miller heads and legs. IMO the best performance to price ratio in the industry. Miller invented the fluid head in 1947, so it seems they have it figured out real well by now )

Though I'm a seasoned veteran of this industry I've never bought into brand loyalty peer pressure that's rampant in certain niches of the motion media industry. Most union DPs and cinematographers will swear up and down that O'Connor has the best head action - when actually very few of them have ever seriously used a Sachtler or Miller head - or if they have its only been briefly. IMO their opinions are greatly influenced by the union peer pressure and brand loyalty that pervades their usually narrative production end of the motion media industry.

In my mobile hybrid EFP (and occasionally cine style) end of the industry I have to regularly track fast moving things (animals, vehicles, athletes), in tight framings, closely and smoothly, and with a very wide variety of head loads (frequently very long focal length lenses) - and my Miller head/leg combos serve me extremely well for that, while still being quite cost effective.

I only made a quick mention of the Skyline 70 earlier in this post, but if you'd like to read my field use impressions of it, my in-depth review article of the Skyline 70 was put up on the Studio Daily web site earlier this week. Here's a link:
http://www.studiodaily.com/2013/11/review-miller-skyline-70-tripod-system-2060/

 

[Josh Tyron]

+1 for Miller. I am using a 50 Series II with Carbon legs for my Red One and a DS-25 with Carbon legs for my Scarlet setup. It took some time but I found them used for a song. Mine are a little older and heavier but I have really enjoyed them so far.

 

[Mark Toia]

I have the compass 25, great fluid head for a killer price. Light weight enough that I've hiked 12 miles in the backcountry with it.

Ive only had big pro heads all my shooting career... but bought the little compass 25 an Miller legs for a job in the mountains . ! All I can say is WOW !! Should have bought one years ago.

 

[Shane Kelly]

I have the miller 55 that I bought originally for the red one and last year bought the miller arrow 25 with carbon fiber VJ legs. The was for a job that had a lot of traveling with a lightweight epic setup. The 25 is perfect for this, especially with the vj legs. These go almost as low as a hi-hat and extend to over head height, very strong and also lightweight. Fantastic combo for a small epic setup.
As for service, I've had my miller 55 head in for service at their facility in New Jersey, they turned around repair in a few days for a reasonable price.

 

[adam christl]

Compass 25 and Gitzo legs

Compass 25 and Gitzo legs

Hey everyone. Hope I'm not hijacking this thread. I used to as part of my research into purchasing a new tripod system. Unfortunately it just arrived and it doesn't quite work....

I purchased the miller compass 25 head and the Gitzo Series 4 6X Systematic 5-Section legs and the gitzo 100mm bowl adaptor which was supposed to make these two items work with each other. Unfortunately they don't. The adaptor prevents the Miller clamp nut from reaching the threaded stud which it needs to or else the whole system is useless. I know people use these 2 items together so there must be a solution. Hopefully somebody can help me out.


I'm attaching 2 images. In it I am including a different clamp nut from another tripod (the 2nd smaller one on the right). The miller Clamp nut has a very deep bowl before it reaches the threaded stud and the adaptor doesn't give it enough length to do so. This smaller bowl on the clamp nutone would work, but the threading is not compatible.

Any thoughts on what I can do to resolve this? I'm thinking I just need a clamp nut with a shallower bowl, but it doesn't look like Miller makes them..

 

[Shane Kelly]

You probably want one of these:
http://store.mytworks.com/myt-accessories/myt-custom-tripod-head-tie-down.html
get the M10 thread for the miller but you may be better to return the gitzo and get a 100mm ball head such as this http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/327753-REG/Miller_1505_SOLO_VJ_Carbon_Fiber.html

 

[adam christl]

Thanks Shane. I had heard nothing, but love in regards to the Gitzo legs so I went with them. In hindsight might not have been the best choice.
The MYT is a good option although I may just switch the legs. Sure wished everything just worked together...

Really appreciate the help tho. Thanks man.