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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Any word on Dragon on or bigger sensor?

Yeah I hope that, too! Since Jim and Jarred mentioned they have to squeeze more boards in there it might be a possibility. 5k @ 24-30 fps would just be so awesome or 4k @ 60.
But no matter if the fps will be upped or not, I guess we will still be blown away, even if it's "only" better IQ.

I just wonder how much the upgrade will be for Scarlet. On a 10k camera, there's not much room for a pricey upgrade. The MX was about 6K as an upgrade... that's "almost" the price for a new scarlet....
 
I still really would like to know what was implied when Jim or Jarred mentioned that R1 owners would be disappointed that they sold their cameras. Jim or Jarred, any thoughts on this, or clues as to what it was in reference to?

Either way it obviously wasn't about upgrading it, and that quote from Jim about R1 not being upgradeable any further makes me sad. The value of my R1 already dropped over night, not over a reasonable amount of time as I thought. I've had all of my fingers crossed that they'd be able to offer a Dragon upgrade that would place it considerably higher than the Scarlet, but it seems the opposite is true.

D:
 
Scott, I don't think that Scarlet will ever quite reach the RED one in fps. The ONE is an awesome camera, and the images and flicks you shoot with it will hold up for really, really long in terms of quality and resolution. Put it to good use, make it pay for itself and for your Dragon EPIC after that :) don't think about selling but about using. you never know what they come up with. If you buy a scarlet now, we dont know what the DRAGON update will cost and what it will do. The image the RED ONE gives you are still future proof. Think about what it has been used for up until now. If I could have afforded one before, I would already be a RED ONE owner.
 
Jason DeSimone said:
Hey Giacomo!

I played fourth in "Resevoir" whats good brotha!

It's feeling like they are going to phase out any upgrades for the R1, I wouldn't expect to see another sensor upgrade for that cam, but as with many things on these boards...that's just speculation.
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all good Jason !
just contemplating my RED ONE package and considering whether it was a smart move :(
 
Patrick Grossien said:
Scott, I don't think that Scarlet will ever quite reach the RED one in fps. The ONE is an awesome camera, and the images and flicks you shoot with it will hold up for really, really long in terms of quality and resolution. Put it to good use, make it pay for itself and for your Dragon EPIC after that :) don't think about selling but about using. you never know what they come up with. If you buy a scarlet now, we dont know what the DRAGON update will cost and what it will do. The image the RED ONE gives you are still future proof. Think about what it has been used for up until now. If I could have afforded one before, I would already be a RED ONE owner.
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Patrick,
I like your thinking, long life to the RED ONE.
 
It will be a MAJOR let-down if RED doesn't have very specific information (like pricing, availability and certainly specs - and "proof" in the form of something we can see) about Dragon at NAB this year. Dragon was REDs biggest announcement last year at NAB and if they just announce stuff about Dragon again this year then it will fuel the whole debate on RED announcing stuff just to announce something. The guys at RED are smart and I'm sure they won't let this happen :-)
 
Scott Summers said:
Could we get a hint as to whether us R1MX owners may be able to upgrade to Dragon? This has concerned me for a while. When this is mentioned, people always bring up an old post where you mentioned something about R1 owners being sorry they sold their R1s. Is that still the case?
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Thanks Scott, you read my mind. I was trawling through this thread to see if anyone had the same sentiments. I am hoping that the Dragon can be implemented into the R1.

Oops, should have read further down the thread. Got my answer. I feel for you Scott.
 
My votes is for dynamic range. Those times when you have a crew and can control light in a studio or an interior location then you're ok. But those times when you're outside in the harsh sun, backlighting someone on a wide shot with massive dynamic range and you just can't get 20x20's in close enough or you're on your own on a low budget shoot? Those are the times when the dynamic range of film is just awesome! I know, I know HDRx... but something native without doubling the data would be incredible!
 
joking: epic will get a new sensor and scarlet will have the old epic ones with the boards to crank up framerates and stuff :D
...honest: wait what future will tell!!
First of all i want my Scarlet in my hands! step by step...you won't win tour de france with a new bike and be sure you won't shoot better pix with more pixels. hahaha... at the beginning there was the word! keep that in mind! lol
 
Here is my prediction for the Dragon Sensor. Because I believe RED is determined to turn Hollywood on it's head:

1) 8K Resolution
2) 14 DR
3) 1600 native ISO
4) Full Frame Sensor like 5D. Scalable down to S35 at 6K
5) 600fps on Epic at 2K.

$7,000 upgrade for Epic. $10,000 upgrade for Scarlet.
 
@Nick. If that's the case it would land closer to 9k or 9.5k at FF35.

The Epic brain has enough power to push through images at that resolution at 24fps and perhaps even up to 48fps or more, which would be fantastic.

The concern would fall on the Scarlet in that case and Red has stated it will cost more for that upgrade. The Scarlet X as is can't push 5k at speed and I imagine part of the upgrade in the Scarlet camp would be to increase it's throughput and performance to be able to handle whatever resolution happens at S35.

I'm betting they go with a new type of sensor tech all together to increase ISO performance and DR. That's all speculative though.
 
Phil Holland said:
@Nick. If that's the case it would land closer to 9k or 9.5k at FF35.

The Epic brain has enough power to push through images at that resolution at 24fps and perhaps even up to 48fps or more, which would be fantastic.

The concern would fall on the Scarlet in that case and Red has stated it will cost more for that upgrade. The Scarlet X as is can't push 5k at speed and I imagine part of the upgrade in the Scarlet camp would be to increase it's throughput and performance to be able to handle whatever resolution happens at S35.

I'm betting they go with a new type of sensor tech all together to increase ISO performance and DR. That's all speculative though.
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Interesting. You are boggling my mind Phil. Maybe its more realstic to assume 6K at Full Frame?

I also think that the RPP's are being redesigned to cover Full Frame, which is why we are seeing the stock dwindling on the store. I predict the 2.0s will be smaller, same speed, and all cover Full Frame.
 
NNNNOOOOOO!!!!!!!! Not 8K please not 8K. This is total overkill for motion work. We simply do not need that kind of pixel resolution. Already at 5k Epic can resolve more than most lenses. 8K would create a storage and transfer speed bottleneck that would see producers scream "get me an Alexa!" The Redrocket card would no longer play real time. You would need two cards and who has the spare PCI slots or Red would need a whole new card. Where could you commercially grade your 8K R3D footage? OMG I can't do the maths but would not storage needs quadruple over 4K?

Never ever has a producer or anyone in post complained about the pixel resolution on my 4k footage.

I understand the stills side of the Epic might benefit but Red hopefully will not outpace post productions abilities which would only serve to alienate the camera from producers.
 
Tom Gleeson said:
NNNNOOOOOO!!!!!!!! Not 8K please not 8K. This is total overkill for motion work. We simply do not need that kind of pixel resolution. Already at 5k Epic can resolve more than most lenses. 8K would create a storage and transfer speed bottleneck that would see producers scream "get me an Alexa!" The Redrocket card would no longer play real time. You would need two cards and who has the spare PCI slots or Red would need a whole new card. Where could you commercially grade your 8K R3D footage? OMG I can't do the maths but would not storage needs quadruple over 4K?

Never ever has a producer or anyone in post complained about the pixel resolution on my 4k footage.

I understand the stills side of the Epic might benefit but Red hopefully will not outpace post productions abilities which would only serve to alienate the camera from producers.
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How about 6K? Full Frame? Could you live with that? With the option of shooting regular 5k Epic as well, obviously. But with much better DR and possibly more FPS too.
 
dragon sensor

dragon sensor

I would like to see a full height sensor (5K or 6K) for use with anamorphics (the new Zeiss lenses). I would also like to see and am sure we will see higher speed (iso), more latitude and a set of RED anamorphics to go with it would be nice.

Bob Torrance
 
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Nick Morrison said:
How about 6K? Full Frame? Could you live with that? With the option of shooting regular 5k Epic as well, obviously. But with much better DR and possibly more FPS too.
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Nick,

While 6k is still overkill it may be the best compromise. Assuming you want to maintain 4k at s35 which has a crop factor of 1.5 from FF and assuming the same pixel density you end up with 6k for FF. Feel free to challenge my dodgy maths.
 
Nick Morrison said:
$7,000 upgrade for Epic. $10,000 upgrade for Scarlet.
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Jim confirmed that the Dragon upgrade would cost less than the body. So it'll be less than $10k.
 
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