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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Any Scarlet Dragons out there?

The rumor has been perpetuated by me, and is total BS. I keep saying they may either phase out MX or mark it down like they did with Red One. There is no source nor is this necessarily going to happen, more so just guessing hypothetical possibilities.. Don't dare make purchase decisions based on my potentially inaccurate musings..

PS my MX has never rented better since Dragon came out.. Last month was the highest rental revenues it ever made at the house...They have mostly Dragons now, so my MX is legacy gold!
 
I shot some more comparison files of Scarlet Dragon versus Scarlet MX today
File A003_C003 is Scarlet Dragon 5k
File A003_C004 is Scarlet Dragon 4k
File A002_C001 is Scarlet MX

I wanted to see skin indoor tungsten in this comparison.
In each case camera location was in the same spot, I stood in as near as I could the same place, lighting was one tungsten light, camera right, Canon 50mm lens f2.8.
(focus looks a little off in one of the shots, but then I was operating the camera via the Redmote)

Dropbox link here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/he053vyv3gr9xr1/AAD-fkPqaJ0Yid3nRpObJxFEa?dl=0

(same folder as before, also contains the files I posted about earlier in this thread)
 
I did some testing this past week with 6k compared to 4k using the same compression... 6:1 I was just not at all impressed with the sharpness. The images were slightly sharper out of the 6k... very marginal you really could only notice if you were to pixel peep. Not like the difference of looking at DSLR to medium format, or RED to medium format. I guess 10 megapixels difference does not make a huge image leap when it is compressed. I will say it handles color slightly better though. I feel thats fairly marginal as well though. Is anyone else feeling like this?
 
Werner Jauch said:
I shot some more comparison files of Scarlet Dragon versus Scarlet MX today
File A003_C003 is Scarlet Dragon 5k
File A003_C004 is Scarlet Dragon 4k
File A002_C001 is Scarlet MX

I wanted to see skin indoor tungsten in this comparison.
In each case camera location was in the same spot, I stood in as near as I could the same place, lighting was one tungsten light, camera right, Canon 50mm lens f2.8.
(focus looks a little off in one of the shots, but then I was operating the camera via the Redmote)

Dropbox link here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/he053vyv3gr9xr1/AAD-fkPqaJ0Yid3nRpObJxFEa?dl=0

(same folder as before, also contains the files I posted about earlier in this thread)
Click to expand...

Is it just me or are your Scarlet Dragon shots completely out of focus? With Scarlet X focus is on the eyes, on Dragon it's way off... Dragons noise is less obtrusive. Color is definitely better on Dragon.
 
I think his focus is definitely off on the dragon shots. i think the noise looks similar between the 2 4k shots... slightly better on the 5k. Looking at them on the 4k monitor though it was really tuff to feel a difference in them.. other than the focus issues
 
I agree with focus issues, as I wrote I shot this of me while simultaneously operating cam via redmote with monitor flipped to face me. Also fwiw in RedCine-X when I changed Scarlet MX to dragoncolor, it looked much closer to to Dragon clips.
 
If Red announced that Camera upgrade price from X to dragon about $5000, I am definitely on it. (In this case, scarlet price.) I am saving my ass for upgrading epic, because as you mentioned, I won't pay $10,000 for dragon scarlet. Instead I would go old epic.
 
Thanx Werner. Comparing 4k MX 8:1 redcode noise and dragon 4k 8:1 redcode, it seems the compression is better on dragon. Less messy. And the colors are more separated. Don't stop posting comparisons R3Ds please!
 
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I'm also on the fence of upgrading to either Epic X or Scarlet Dragon. Any other information or test will be appreciated.
 
Thanks Werner for all the hard work. Could I also suggest the test yet to happen is mx scarlet 6.1 compression to Dragon compression 8.1 , both represent the lowest ratios on the respective cameras . However I noted @ 4k WS I can get the ratio down to 4.1 on SD.

To those considering epic and then epic dragon. When you factor in the new upgrade price IMO you might as well buy new and live without the hassle of all the upgrades etc, etc. the difference seems to be about a couple of $k . Easily covered by the sale of a 2nd hand Scarlet Brain.
 
Mike Garrick said:
Thanks Werner . Could I suggest The test yet to happen is mx scarlet 6.1 compression to Dragon compression 8.1 , both represent the lowest ratios on the respective cameras . However I noted @ 4k WS I can get the ratio down to 4.1 on SD.

To those considering epic and then epic dragon. When you factor in the new upgrade price IMO you might as well buy new and live without the hassle of all the upgrades etc, etc. the difference seems to be about a couple of $k . Easily covered by the sale of a 2nd hand Scarlet Brain.
Click to expand...

Well, we don't know yet what will happen to the prices of the new bodies. Red just announced that the upgrade prices will increase but i would not be surprised if they rise the price of the new bodies too after december.
 
Mine arrived on Thursday night. Friday morning she was on a feature film set. Baptism of fire.

Here she is in all her guise.





Very impressive camera I must say. If shooting in 5k WS (2:40:1), we noticed we were allowed to shoot at 7:1 compression.
 
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Some more comparisons uploaded:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/he053vyv3gr9xr1/AAD-fkPqaJ0Yid3nRpObJxFEa?dl=0
All were Canon 50mm f10.0, shot in the early evening, about 5.30 6pm.
D001_C059 is Scarlet MX 8:1 compression
D001_C060 is Scarlet MX 6:1 compression
A002_C002 is Scarlet Dragon 4K
A002_C003 is Scarlet Dragon 5k
The Scarlet Dragon clips are much longer as I couldn't get the redmote to work properly. Not sure if trimming in RedCine-X would change anything, so whole files uploaded. In the middle of each Dragon clip I am standing beside the car for a second or two, comparable to the MX shots.
For information, it was hot in FL the previous day, so there is some sunburn on my face if anyone is looking at skintones closely
 
Mike, check out post #113

Mike Garrick said:
Thanks Werner for all the hard work. Could I also suggest the test yet to happen is mx scarlet 6.1 compression to Dragon compression 8.1 , both represent the lowest ratios on the respective cameras . However I noted @ 4k WS I can get the ratio down to 4.1 on SD.

To those considering epic and then epic dragon. When you factor in the new upgrade price IMO you might as well buy new and live without the hassle of all the upgrades etc, etc. the difference seems to be about a couple of $k . Easily covered by the sale of a 2nd hand Scarlet Brain.
Click to expand...
 
Werner Jauch said:
Some more comparisons uploaded:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/he053vyv3gr9xr1/AAD-fkPqaJ0Yid3nRpObJxFEa?dl=0
All were Canon 50mm f10.0, shot in the early evening, about 5.30 6pm.
D001_C059 is Scarlet MX 8:1 compression
D001_C060 is Scarlet MX 6:1 compression
A002_C002 is Scarlet Dragon 4K
A002_C003 is Scarlet Dragon 5k
The Scarlet Dragon clips are much longer as I couldn't get the redmote to work properly. Not sure if trimming in RedCine-X would change anything, so whole files uploaded. In the middle of each Dragon clip I am standing beside the car for a second or two, comparable to the MX shots.
For information, it was hot in FL the previous day, so there is some sunburn on my face if anyone is looking at skintones closely
Click to expand...

Trimming is the most standard and sensible way to make clips short without doing anything at all to the RAW images. It saves people a lot of time (and helps focus the discussion) when you post a clip that has exactly the frames you want to demonstrate--no more and no less.
 
Took my Scarlet Dragon out for a test drive to test compression ratios. Everything in the video is 8:1, as I found out in the edit that 10:1 clearly starts to break down when there's this much detail (hundreds of leafs, etc).

I used A.D.D. and D.E.B. for each frame on the video using XML export from Premiere to Red Cine-X, then a TIFF export back into Premiere, layering it on top of the footage, stabilizing the shots again. Is there a better way to do this if you want to use A.D.D. / D.E.B.?

 
Adam Montville said:
Took my Scarlet Dragon out for a test drive to test compression ratios. Everything in the video is 8:1, as I found out in the edit that 10:1 clearly starts to break down when there's this much detail (hundreds of leafs, etc).

I used A.D.D. and D.E.B. for each frame on the video using XML export from Premiere to Red Cine-X, then a TIFF export back into Premiere, layering it on top of the footage, stabilizing the shots again. Is there a better way to do this if you want to use A.D.D. / D.E.B.?

Click to expand...

I can't tell you how much more excited I am for my upgrade after seeing your footage. A lot of what I love to film is nature, and a lot of my problems with the Scarlet-X have been with footage breaking apart within the heavy detail of the woods. It was so calming to finally see how well this sensor reacts to such content.

I think you made my week, haha.
 
Anthony Berenato Jr said:
I can't tell you how much more excited I am for my upgrade after seeing your footage. A lot of what I love to film is nature, and a lot of my problems with the Scarlet-X have been with footage breaking apart within the heavy detail of the woods. It was so calming to finally see how well this sensor reacts to such content.

I think you made my week, haha.
Click to expand...

Thank you, and on top of that, I will say that the YouTube version also lifted the gamma up. This never happened to me before, but I did change how I export it. I'm uploading the 4K mkv to DropBox. I highly recommend to view the source file, and I think it will really blow your expectations out of the water. So smooth.

link, right click save as: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84206648/Woods 4K.mkv
 
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Werner Jauch said:
Some more comparisons uploaded:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/he053vyv3gr9xr1/AAD-fkPqaJ0Yid3nRpObJxFEa?dl=0
All were Canon 50mm f10.0, shot in the early evening, about 5.30 6pm.
D001_C059 is Scarlet MX 8:1 compression
D001_C060 is Scarlet MX 6:1 compression
A002_C002 is Scarlet Dragon 4K
A002_C003 is Scarlet Dragon 5k
The Scarlet Dragon clips are much longer as I couldn't get the redmote to work properly. Not sure if trimming in RedCine-X would change anything, so whole files uploaded. In the middle of each Dragon clip I am standing beside the car for a second or two, comparable to the MX shots.
For information, it was hot in FL the previous day, so there is some sunburn on my face if anyone is looking at skintones closely
Click to expand...

Thanx Werner. It's weird, this time MX seems to look better regarding noise, skin color. Interesting to see those comparisons. I still don't know if the dragon upgrade is worth 9500$. I'm lost.
 
Thanks again Werner for posting more tests. I have to side with sam on this one... Mx seems to be doing better with noise. so Strange. I also do not notice a real detail increase. I think I will just stick to my scarlet MX.
 
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