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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Another year of the Blues, no Red Scarlet yet.

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The Red One has been out for over three years and Arri's answer finally came this year for the Red One. With the first Epic-M shipped (unfortunately stolen) and inevitably more 5K Epic-Ms shipping this month, it seems to me that Arri's 1080p camera is the one who is late.

As for Scarlet, yes we are all anxious for this camera to come out but I try to look at the bright side of things. By the time it is shipping, it will ridiculously outspec any camera in its price range. For those that might have missed it, I can testify that his camera is alive and well: http://vimeo.com/17819409

Scarlet isn't late to the party, I'd say it is still years ahead of schedule. =)
 
Tonaci Tran said:
The Red One has been out for over three years and Arri's answer finally came this year for the Red One. With the first Epic-M shipped (unfortunately stolen) and inevitably more 5K Epic-Ms shipping this month, it seems to me that Arri's 1080p camera is the one who is late.

As for Scarlet, yes we are all anxious for this camera to come out but I try to look at the bright side of things. By the time it is shipping, it will ridiculously outspec any camera in its price range. For those that might have missed it, I can testify that his camera is alive and well: http://vimeo.com/17819409

Scarlet isn't late to the party, I'd say it is still years ahead of schedule. =)
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Bingo:smilewinkgrin:
 
David Rasberry said:
It is easy to hit delivery dates with something like the AF100 when there is no fundamentally new technology involved. It is just a repackaging job. AF-100 has been in development for almost two years too. Panasonic just didn't tell you about it in advance.
When you are pushing the envelope of what is technically possible to the razor edge, it is not so easy to predict schedules. Personally I have enjoyed the ride so far.
I don't pick my cameras based on marketing ploys anyway. The choice is a complex balance of cost vs features and performance. I want the best possible photographic imaging performance for what I can afford. I have waited for 30 years for an affordable electronic camera that could reasonably replace a 16mm Bolex film camera, a few months more is not a problem.
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David, I respect your opinion and you make some good points. Even though I am getting the AF-100, I am still curious about the Scarlet. Competition is essential and I hope RED succeeds because it will force Panasonic and the others to create a better product in the end.

Simon
 
Cüneyt Kaya said:
i did check it too...
no playback on alexa yet? didnt know that
seems to be a boring place over there hehe
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Alexa has some unfinished features like no playback, no audio, no arriraw. I figure it'll be mature about 1 to 1.5 years after release. About the same as red one.
 
All of these new cameras will find their own markets. The AF100 is a decent prosumer level camera and certainly a nice step up from what has been offered in the past. I like the m4/3 format a lot.
Having spent some time with recode raw files and Redcine in its various forms, I am totally hooked on raw acquisition. I am not interested in 8 bit AVCHD video as a shooting format at all. The difference in creative flexibility with high resolution raw files is too compelling.
 
Graeme Nattress said:
Tom, best of luck with your Alexa - there's lots of room for all kinds of cameras for all kinds of users. You can discuss Alexa here: http://www.arridigital.com/forum/ and if you want to later add a RED camera to your business, you can discuss all about that here.

Graeme
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Graeme, what a nicely diplomatic post.

I wandered over to the Arri Digital forum for a look. It was an eye opening reality check. It seems that Alexa is not without it's problems and has missing features.

Not bashing anyone, but I suggest if someone thinks Alexa is the answer for their needs, to check out that forum to see if it is.
 
TomDannenberg said:
Delete me.
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Tom, you're right, people need to work and, when a camera is available and you need one, you have to jump. But, as has been asked, why tell us about it when you've just ordered a new camera that costs $65k when you could have bought a thoroughly tested, reliable camera that has more resolution, RAW acquisition, is lighter and is $40k cheaper? Even the DR argument no longer holds water with the latest colour science.

If you want the latest, bleeding edge tech, then part of the fun is waiting. If you need a camera, NOW, why not buy what's tried and true. Oh yeah, the name. So you wanted to tell us that? You bought an Arri. Congratulations.
 
Carsten Fenstermacher said:
Alexa has some unfinished features like no playback, no audio, no arriraw. I figure it'll be mature about 1 to 1.5 years after release. About the same as red one.
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Don't forget black sun on Alexa.

Graeme
 
Not that I know of.

Graeme
 
I don't think that anyone is saying that the Scarlet is behind with regards to the tech that it has in it, more the fact that RED constantly makes statements about release dates and "big announcements" and then fails to ever follow through. No one is saying that if this camera ever materialises, it won't be years ahead of anything in its price range, but until that time, maybe it's better to keep quiet and surprise the world.

It's kinda like going into a gourmet restaurant that promises to have your food freshly cooked from RAW (haha) in 10 minutes. You'd think "wow that's amazing, I wonder how they do that." 40 minutes later, your gourmet dinner arrives and it's all that you expected it to be... But it was 30 minutes later than they had advertised. Fact is, they didn't do what they set out to do. When you complain about the time it took, the waiter points to the bottom of the menu where it states 'everything is subject to change.'

All well and good telling RED that whatever they do (missing deadlines, not coming through on announcements, increasing the price again and again) it's the right choice, but some of us actually take what Jim say seriously, budget ourselves with his words in mind and schedule buying into new tech based on what he has previously stated.

Just my opinion :)
 
Richard_JP said:
I don't think that anyone is saying that the Scarlet is behind with regards to the tech that it has in it, more the fact that RED constantly makes statements about release dates and "big announcements" and then fails to ever follow through. No one is saying that if this camera ever materialises, it won't be years ahead of anything in its price range, but until that time, maybe it's better to keep quiet and surprise the world.

It's kinda like going into a gourmet restaurant that promises to have your food freshly cooked from RAW (haha) in 10 minutes. You'd think "wow that's amazing, I wonder how they do that." 40 minutes later, your gourmet dinner arrives and it's all that you expected it to be... But it was 30 minutes later than they had advertised. Fact is, they didn't do what they set out to do. When you complain about the time it took, the waiter points to the bottom of the menu where it states 'everything is subject to change.'

All well and good telling RED that whatever they do (missing deadlines, not coming through on announcements, increasing the price again and again) it's the right choice, but some of us actually take what Jim say seriously, budget ourselves with his words in mind and schedule buying into new tech based on what he has previously stated.

Just my opinion :)
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Try putting yourself in RED's shoes. They are out to make the best cameras in the world. When they make an estimate..it is nothing but that. "If everything goes as planned" the cameras will come out at "this time." Things change constantly. They are making a camera that involves thousands of parts, hundreds of vendors and everything has to work perfectly. So many variables come into play that affect ship dates. This is a million times more complex than making a "gourmet meal." 5k in a tiny box. This is the FIRST time it has ever been done. It has taken them longer to work out the firmware bugs on the Epic. This delays things. I can see individuals being upset if RED on purpose to mislead people, made up fake dates. I really don't think that is the case here. Whenever Jim gave "estimates" I think he truly gave the best estimate at the time based on what he knew. It is important to note, these are estimates ONLY. Not promises. It is not a smart decision to plan a shoot on a camera that has not shipped yet. We all take what Jim says seriously, but don't forget his signature. I am on the other side of the fence. I would like to know the estimates. I am so glad Jim has given the estimate of a Feb Epic-X roll out. I understand fully 100% this may change..but at least I have a rough idea. I'm not saying you are wrong and I am right. I am just on the other side of the fence when it comes to release date projections.
 
Richard_JP said:
I don't think that anyone is saying that the Scarlet is behind with regards to the tech that it has in it, more the fact that RED constantly makes statements about release dates and "big announcements" and then fails to ever follow through. No one is saying that if this camera ever materialises, it won't be years ahead of anything in its price range, but until that time, maybe it's better to keep quiet and surprise the world.

It's kinda like going into a gourmet restaurant that promises to have your food freshly cooked from RAW (haha) in 10 minutes. You'd think "wow that's amazing, I wonder how they do that." 40 minutes later, your gourmet dinner arrives and it's all that you expected it to be... But it was 30 minutes later than they had advertised. Fact is, they didn't do what they set out to do. When you complain about the time it took, the waiter points to the bottom of the menu where it states 'everything is subject to change.'

All well and good telling RED that whatever they do (missing deadlines, not coming through on announcements, increasing the price again and again) it's the right choice, but some of us actually take what Jim say seriously, budget ourselves with his words in mind and schedule buying into new tech based on what he has previously stated.

Just my opinion :)
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Your restaurant analogy doesn't hold up all that well but to try and make it work...

imagine your waiter comes and advises you that the special that evening is delicious and he recommends it highly. HOWEVER, he points out that it might take longer to prepare and the actual time somewhat depends on things outside his control (like obtaining exactly the right ingredients). He assures you it will be an experience worth the wait but THERE WILL BE A WAIT! He even points out where it states this policy clearly on the the menu (in case he was unclear or you forget). He suggests you relax and enjoy the experience but if you are in a hurry, by all means, order something else. (You might even want to try the fast food place across the street if you are in a real hurry.)

Now, how foolish would it be, if you had theatre tickets in 45 minutes, for you to order the special? Do you blame the waiter when your food doesn't come on time? Were you foolish enough to forget that he warned you and you didn't listen? Is it his fault if you miss the opening curtain? How much responsibility are you willing to take for your own decisions and for the way you go about your planning. What does he have to do to get you to think for yourself and stop blaming him? He was completely honest with you from the beginning. What more do you want?
 
Liam Hall said:
You really know how to start the year in a positive manner:)
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No, just expecting something in 2008 :).


George,

But the scarlet was not announced with the Red one, but after and years ago. :)

People go on about this delivery issue, but I would have been happy with a simpler camera with less codec quality, but 4K. It is just that Red tried to do so much more that it is delayed, good for you guys, not so good for me. If Jim had gone for my idea of a $1000 quality camera that would also be sold onto the mass market as luxury/prosumer video camera with cine like image, to reduce price, the Sony and Panasonic competition could seriously been comprised by now. Just one more competitive strategy on top of this... As it is they have enough room to survive the Red onslaught, people will still, presumably, buy Sony and Panasonic, because it has Sony or Panasonic on it, their service and support and is "good enough".
 
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