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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Another Remote FF thread...

CVB said:
we will do our best to make our remotes as modular as the pricing permits. Adding several $20 lemo connectors to a design really bumps up the price of manufacturing.
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I personally think many would not care as much about modularity if you can design a focus/iris/zoom remote in one unit at a decent size and at your price point.



CVB said:
If I can make something that will allow someone to take a $500 lens and make it perform to the point where a rack focus doesn't look like a zoom then is that a bad thing?
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Breathing lenses happen with some cooke and angenuix lenses I use and there are ways to hide it if you know what you are doing. I would put up with a little breathing any day if it meant the remote had a good focus, iris and zoom control.
 
CVB said:
Regardless I'm going to do what you guys want.... My only goal is that the end product is inexpensive, feature rich, and makes the current players in the field get of their couch and innovate.
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NICE

Thanks
 
Finner said:
Breathing lenses happen with some cooke and angenuix lenses I use and there are ways to hide it if you know what you are doing. I would put up with a little breathing any day if it meant the remote had a good focus, iris and zoom control.
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Darren, this isn't a give one feature and take another proposition. I think we can make the unit have good focus, iris and zoom without eliminating other features. :)
 
Finner said:
Curt I am not sure everyone was complaining about your ideas for featues and options. I really believe it was just a reaction to it not having some kind of a markable disc. Features are great and focus pullers will learn how to use them to their advantage its just for many it not having a markable disc made it a no go. So I think the reaction you got was more of a "We can do without all the features just as long as it has a markable disc" kind of attitude. Thus I feel it comes down to there being some key simple features like a focus wheel with a markable disc, iris slide and zoom control system that will be viewed as key but after those are done well other bonus features will be really appreciated.
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I second that. Go, Curt go. I'm going to stop being nasty now. Of course we'd love all of the features you describe. I was personally getting scared that you seemed to be listing the "optional extra" features ahead of the really important ergonomic stuff.

It's just that if you simply deliver the basics with excellent ergonomics, we'll already be getting a fantastic deal. Ergonomics / price is pretty much the deciding factor behind the purchase for me. I want to be able to give it to a focus puller and for them to quickly be able to work with it and say "wow, this is so easy to use, I can't believe it's so cheap," not go "what the heck is this?" for a day. Ten minutes of "what the heck?" maximum ;) I do enough other unconventional things on set that trying to push a weird follow focus device on the crew might be the straw that breaks the camel's back and starts as whole crew mutiny ;)

Seriously, you should be doing beta tests with real focus pullers. When they approve unreservedly, then you know your product is right.

Let's take the Red for example - the initial cage stuff was a bit wacky. They didn't see it and just thought that they were re-defining the industry, etc... But when they went off and worked with Peter Jackson, that's when suddenly we started seeing the design become much more usable. It also coincidentally moved more towards what is already industry standard. That's why we're saying, if you need a short-cut, just look closely at Arri / Preston / Cmotion.

If you deliver all of the extra features, it moves into the "too good to be true" category. Like getting an iPod with a AM/FM radio, sound recording features, etc ;)

I'm not exactly the biggest Apple fan out there but the fact is that they succeed in human-machine interface design where practically everyone else fails because they work like mad to make it as simple as possible. But if you can make something that has extra features AND is still at a great price point AND at the top of its' game interface-wise, please go ahead! We will be absolutely delighted, of course!

I should also state that since I don't have a Red and am not on the reservation list, you shouldn't listen to me too much. But if Red will sell their Red Motors separately, I'll be very happy to use their motor system and your controller on my HV20 / 35mm adapter rig. When I do bigger projects, I'll rent a Red and your controller will migrate across... if I can't, then I'll buy the Redrock one and rent yours if the Redrock one is insufficient for the Red.

Good luck!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
CVB said:
Yeah, the water resistance was on my list on our site...
  • Wireless (Zigbee) and Wired control options - wireless range: 1Mile in open, 300 ft indoors
  • Encrypted transmission - avoids radio interference and no addressing is necessary (no dips to set)
  • Mono Graphical LCD - full user interface with numerous features that are easily upgraded
  • Modular design - all control axis are assignable to any of the three input devices (Force sensor, Knob, or Capacitive slider), right or left handed operation
  • Solid construction - water resistant magnesium case, o-ring seals, minimal mechanical components
  • 3 channel simultaneous control
  • Motion control functionality - **record and repeat moves, goto preset positions automatically, settings for speed and easing
  • Removable battery pack, rechargeable via usb connection
  • Lens database - choose a preset lens to auto calibrate the motors to a given lens. Fully upgradeable via usb or SD card.
  • Receiver unit accepts 12V-24V power source and connects to three motors, includes usb connection for use with certain digital cinema cameras
  • Receiver unit dimensions are approx. 3.0"x2.0"x0.75"
  • **Lens Breathing Compensation (LBC) - during a rack focus, zoom motor compensations for breathing to keep framing consistent
  • **Works with Mirus motion control system - Record FIZ tracks separately or during a moco shot

** This functionality may not be in place at time of shipping but will be enabled through future software releases.
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YES PLEASE!
 
kalone said:
Hey Brook, btw, thanks for uploading the c-motion video. That were the guys I meant...the blonde and the austrian...
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Man, I have to get my dsl up... the dial up is killing me... I look forward to checking this out and also finally getting to see what the hell Brook's "Eater" is all about...:pinch: :shifty:

BTW, I have enjoyed this thread very much --cheers to all.
 
Brook Willard said:
As long as the interface isn't like that! :)
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As long as we have a marking band and a slider, the the lcd panel and all its C-Motion-esque functions are more than welcome.
 
Michael Lindsay said:
Hi Curt

Is it possible to have 2 controllers (vfs) linked to the zigbee.. The ability to control simultaneously focus and zoom/iris would be good..
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I would like to ask the inverse question. Is it possible to control two sets of motors from the same remote?
 
The remote can control one axis at the moment just because there is only one input. If we add in the slider as a few people are asking for then yes, two axis control at a time from one remote is possible.
 
Dear Curt,

Good to see the development.

I agree that ergonomic "monkey brain" simplicity is paramount.
As stated before elsewhere a focus puller doesn't get much time to "look" at the scale and back to a changing subject distance.

Clear "all angle" viewing is another must. (dim glow even better - red spills more likely into set?!?!)

Usually when shooting a camera/lens test for production insurance you will prefabricate scales (with clear tape protected?) and have a left/right combo for your mec ff sitting with lenses. THEREFORE I would love you to go COMPATIBLE and use exactly dimensions of ARRI Scales since you will only benefit by selling a pair for 213,-$ for starters...:shiftyph34r:

Like overall feeling.
As stated before:
Clear- single purpose design for image control ABSOLUTE MUST otherways pros will stay away. If multiple motor control ONLY as set-up option - since it needs to recalibrate to focus scale anyways.
DONT go quick change - double setup - with invitation to accidently ramp iris when focus pull intended. I guess you do that once and your head of department will tell you to hire "proper equipment" next time :wacko:
I guess camera department are not allowed to make mistakes since everyone else can stay at home in that case in the first place.

Some quick thoughts about ergonomics - please excuse the scribble - but most obvious points.

Best of luck
still waiting for chance to put down deposit ;)
 
CVB said:
The remote can control one axis at the moment just because there is only one input. If we add in the slider as a few people are asking for then yes, two axis control at a time from one remote is possible.
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I should have been clearer. If I have a stereoscopic setup can I have identical focus pulls on two seperate cameras from one remote?
 
Brook Willard said:
Heh, well thanks guys. I only lit the thing.
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I thought it looked great. Good job on the lighting Brook, Its very ominous.

Volker Ehlers said:
Clear "all angle" viewing is another must. (dim glow even better - red spills more likely into set?!?!)
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Thats a good point.. I've been thinking about just moving the whole knob upwards. Just FYI.. the reason I'm trying to make this so small is I want to try and see if I can make it work for matte box rail mounting as well. It seems like its getting bigger though :(

Volker Ehlers said:
Usually when shooting a camera/lens test for production insurance you will prefabricate scales (with clear tape protected?) and have a left/right combo for your mec ff sitting with lenses. THEREFORE I would love you to go COMPATIBLE and use exactly dimensions of ARRI Scales since you will only benefit by selling a pair for 213,-$ for starters...:shiftyph34r:
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I'm confused on that point.. are you asking that we make the marking ring compatible with an Arri/Preston ring? They are a little steep - Preston sells their rings for about $40 each, Arri for $20. If you guys really want to pay that much then fine... I'd rather make our own and sell them for $5 each by making the geometry simple enough so the piece part cost is very low.



Volker Ehlers said:
Clear- single purpose design for image control ABSOLUTE MUST otherways pros will stay away. If multiple motor control ONLY as set-up option - since it needs to recalibrate to focus scale anyways.
DONT go quick change - double setup - with invitation to accidently ramp iris when focus pull intended. I guess you do that once and your head of department will tell you to hire "proper equipment" next time :wacko:
I guess camera department are not allowed to make mistakes since everyone else can stay at home in that case in the first place.
Click to expand...
I'll make the remote a single purpose to a point. If I can hide a bunch of functionality that doesn't interfere with the "simple" daily operation then I'm going to do that. I've already agreed that we will make the axis selection something that isn't as easy as just hitting the button. I'm looking into adding a slider so you will probably not need to switch axis anyway.

Volker Ehlers said:
Some quick thoughts about ergonomics - please excuse the scribble - but most obvious points.
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Thanks for the picture.. I guess I was envisioning the unit being held sideways... kind of like when using a bartech. I'll make some mock ups out of foam to get a better handle on the ergonomics of this... I have a tricky time gauging that stuff because I have giant hands :)
Is the knob really mandatory on a remote? I don't remember seeing that on anyone else's units.

cailyoung said:
I should have been clearer. If I have a stereoscopic setup can I have identical focus pulls on two seperate cameras from one remote?
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Yup, we can do that. I'm glad you brought that up.. I would have missed that functionality, its actually really easy. I'll see if I can find an elegant way of getting that in without messing things up too much ;)
 
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