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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Anonymus . . . The Movie

Rohan B said:
Which people look down at red man which people??????????? I want to know???? where are they?? the guys who don't like red like wally pfister and chris nolan dislike digital as a whole, they don't like alexa as well, they will convert only when digital surpasses film in terms of technical superiority i.e. more dynamic range, latitude and sensitivity than film and better color reproduction ,range and color depth...... which i am sure monstro dragon will bring. epics are being used for a lot of televisiom series and 2d features as well. All of you guys who are still saying that the industry is looking down at red are completely blind, you are not checking the real world scenario, just reading some stupid posts and making stupid theories for yourselves....

Red epic is the digital cinema camera that is being used for most of the movies that are being shot digitally and that constitutes both 2d and 3d....
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The point I was trying to make is that people on this site go nuts defending the RED cameras. That makes people suspicious. Relax, REDs are the bomb. I rent MXs, EPICS and Alexas. They all have their place, and add to that a half of a dozen new cameras very soon. Soon it will be about picking looks (kinda like filmstocks). Someone did mention ACs trash talking the Epics. It happens, probably because the parts to build a whole feature system are still missing (I do 85% low budget features). I have seen digital projection of the trailer for "HUGO" and "Dragon Tatoo' . I have seen digital of "Drive", "Intime", Social Network", "Contagion" etc. All on a huge screen. They all looked great. It is no long RED vs Alexa and it is really not that big of a deal. Rohan mentioned that the EPIC is the camera being used for most movies, both 2D and 3D. I'm not quite sure you are right. Cameras are being picked for their different qualities.
 
Kenneth Williams said:
Josh MAN-UP. I'm in LA. I can help with this.
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For me The Death Match has already been decided: I ordered the only 5K/300FPS/RAW camera that takes Canon glass. Oh and . . . hot chicks dig the sick RED paramilitary branding - so that's a bene that Arri can't deliver.

To me the cine/feature film resolution, look & feel debate will be decided when the theater industry upgrades their projection system. Quality is ultimately decided by the last thing to touch the film. That's why Lucas had his THX certification and why Jim is developing 4K projection. I've seen 4K RED projected on the 40' RED Studio screen - fuckin amazing but this is not the world Joe Popcorn lives in. As long as the last link suxass there is little to argue about there. Jim will hopefully unsuck the theater industry and Joe can see what I, and other fellow REDies, have seen.

Peace my RED brothers. It's a great time to be alive and in the game! Can't we all just get along . . .
 
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Kenneth Williams said:
Josh I know what you are saying with this comment. So now I know, and it is safe to say, you are an idiot!
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Hey Brother Kenneth,
I forgive you for your anger. With 23 posts you might not be aware that REDuser is not YouTube or 4Chan where personalized attacks are the currency of trade. From what I can tell, respectful disagreements, good humor ribbing and civil debates are more the norm. Hopefully, like me, you have a ticket to the big show tomorrow where you and I can meet and have a chuckle. I think you will find I am not an idiot, a simple minded moron with an opinion perhaps, but certainly not an idiot.
Peace be with you always,
-Josh
 
Dan Kanes said:
Anyone can see this evident in the "Milk Girls" clip produced with the original Red One Prototypes. In fact, when I saw that footage at first, I was one of the people who said "There is no way this came out of a digital camera - this must be film and this can't be real.
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Graeme's touch. 'Nattress' factory.

Exactly my feeling, then ...and today :-)


EDIT -- The most funny, next paragraph you'll mention his name. I've just seen now ;) And I could not agree more on your list why Alexa is mentioned. Nice to know two people with no connection in-between can have the same opinion on the facts ;)

EDIT Part II -- Simple but one of the best posts ever read @reduser.net 'cause says a lot of anything and everything -- my compliments!
 
Graeme was provided by aliens through an intergalactic exchange program. We gave them an In-N-Out burger location in return. Seems fair
 
Kenneth Williams said:
Josh, you are right I should not have stated that you are an idiot. I am sorry for that. A statement like that might ruin your huge career as a big time Hollywood director of photography. Someone might log onto REDUSER and not hire you based on my single blog entry instead of your 479 + entries which clearly show the world just who you are. Now that I have apologized and read the rules of conduct pertaining to REDUSER I just have one thing to say… Josh I think you are an idiot!
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I will pray for you my Kenneth. Clearly your life has been hard and there have been many, many disappointments. If focusing your anger and frustration upon me allows you to have a moment of peace then I will be your brother and take that pain. Again, peace be with you always.
 
Kenneth Williams said:
Well said! Remember when Avid came out and editors hated it? They claimed it would be the downfall of civilization!
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True. And the most funny is that a few years later, they were simply replacing the steenbecks with Avid as I could see starting in 90s @ Lisbon film school within my days as editing department's apprentice, yet using both of them -- Steenbecks during first two years, Avid was reserved for final 3rd year.

In my 3rd year, Sony HDCAM F900 came up and I got the chance to attend to a Sony workshop which really changed my mind on tools (and life ;) I heard the same inside the cinematography department. A former instructor of mine, cinematographer, was spreading misinformation allover the film school saying the camera would actually cost triple price :D
 
Josh Beadle said:
I will pray for you my Kenneth. Clearly your life has been hard and there have been many, many disappointments. If focusing your anger and frustration upon me allows you to have a moment of peace then I will be your brother and take that pain. Again, peace be with you always.
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Josh, I feel for you. Just move on, some can not be leveled with.
 
Gentlemen, let's the(ir) kids (part) stop and take the whole thing as just good humor -- it is the only best choice to make :)
 
Well, ARRI sold in fact over 2000 Alexa's so far. Just for the record.



The DOP of Anonymous Anna Foerster had never shot completely digital before.

So together with Academy Award Winner Volker Engel and his partner at Uncharted Territory, Mark Weigert she tested the picture quality of two digital cameras: The Alexa and the RED MX.

By the time the test was done, the EPIC was not yet available and the Alexa didn't have the ARRI RAW Recorder available yet.
So for the test they used the dual link SDI 4:4:4 signal from the Alexa which was fed into the CODEX recorder that internally records in JPEG-2000 at about a 1:4 compression rate.

After heavy testing, Foerster, Engel and Weigert choose the Alexa over the RED MX for several reasons:

1. The Alexa showed one stop more dynamic range.

2. At 800 ISO in low light conditions the RED MX tended to tint to green-ish and purple-ish while the Alexa stayed absolutely color-stable.

3. At 800 ISO there were also artifacts around highlight like candle flames with the RED MX. The Alexa didn't showed these problems.

4. There was slightly more noise in the dark parts of the picture with the RED MX.

5. When shooting green screen at ISO 800 the Alexa showed better results. Especially with details like hair. The RED MX tended to show red spillings around hairs here.
The testers thought that it had something to do with the lenses they used, so they tested a lot of different lenses on this subject only to find out that the RED MX seemed to be the source of the problem.
The Alexa again performed flawlessly on this topic.

That - anong other things - are the reasons why Anonymous was shot on Alexa.

Listen. I love my RED One, and soon enough I am a prowd owner of an EPIC.
But for every job, the right tool for the right task has to be chosen carefully.

Anna Foerster chose Alexa. Next time she might choose Epic.
After all "It's not the tools, it's the craft"

And please don't come back bashing at me.
I just delivered you guys some facts about why the Alexa was chosen over the RED MX.

The whole test might look quite different with the Epic.

But the Epic was just not available at the time Anonymous was shot. End of story.



Peter
 
Just thought I'd clarify one thing that some people may have been confused at - my Epic Test invitation was directed towards Josh Snyder who insisted that Alexa was De Facto "better" because you see it on YouTube.

Regarding the Anonymous test - Peter, thank you for sharing the story - don't doubt that what you say is true. The only thing I could question would be the testing methodology. This may be why Red has decided the importance Of sending a Handler to any test of this magnitude.

The painful thing about having choices (which is to me, what sets Red Apart) is that we, as humans, have many more opportunities to take a slight misstep - especially with something as sensitive as Color Science.

I'd be blown away if a compositing / VFX house would prefer a 2.5k image over a 4k one - well - I take that back - I can think of one in Pasadena that is very Alexa-fied, but that is neither here nor there.

Let's face it - there are people who choose a 5D over an Epic , MX or Alexa because "it's better in Low light" - that's one of the dangers of misinformation.

Again, I digress. I have no need to force my needs on others - in fact I'm looking forward to using the new Canon camera as well as Scarlet - I love testing new gear!
 
Dan Kanes said:
Just thought I'd clarify one thing that some people may have been confused at - my Epic Test invitation was directed towards Josh Snyder who insisted that Alexa was De Facto "better" because you see it on YouTube.

Regarding the Anonymous test - Peter, thank you for sharing the story - don't doubt that what you say is true. The only thing I could question would be the testing methodology. This may be why Red has decided the importance Of sending a Handler to any test of this magnitude.
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I said to look at the trailers from youtube since that's the best quality you can see the trailers from the internet (apple trailers might have better 1080p versions?).

Zacuto invited RED to come with EPIC for The Great Camera Shootout 2011. RED said no.

The Great Camera Shootout is the best camera comparison ever. They won Emmy last year and are nominated for few again this year. If I knew I had superior product, I would go to the Shootout with my camera and show the world how good it is. That's a no brainer, business 101. There's a reason why RED didn't go. If they knew they had the superior product of course they would have gone.

From Steve Weiss:

The tests were conducted by Bob Primes ASC, Zacuto had nothing to do with the testing process, we are just making a documentary about the test, which will include the test footage and peoples reactions to viewing it in 2K theaters around the world. Both Bob and I asked RED for an Epic for our phase one technical tests and we were told no that the camera was still in Beta (this was about a week before it was released). For phase two tests, which were several weeks later and the Epic had been released, we again were told no. At NAB, Ted was being interviewed on the Teradek right before me and Philip Bloom. Phil and I were standing there as Ted walked off and I said to Ted "Boy a lot of people have been watching the SCCE test in our booth and have asked why the Epic was not included", Ted said, "My cameras are on movies and I don't believe in tests".
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Why was this moved to "SHOT ONE RED"? It was shot with Alexa.
 
Give them enough rope and they hang themselves.

Like I said, Josh Snyder - don't believe everything you read on the Internet:

Point one:
It was not a Zacuto shoot-out - they got an Emmy for documenting the test.
Point two:
The SCCE was not an accurate and unbiased test - all one has to do is look at the test and you will see that lighting was not consistent between shots - the most obvious offender being what appears to be a Leko light aimed at a couch being one that stands out in my mind as an obvious continuity error. If your test lacks consistency it isn't scientific, right? Did we learn about scientific method? I did.
Point Three:
If you just take everything at face value without evaluating it for yourself then you are merely following the diatribes of the great and not so great rather than experiencing them.

If you are happy just seeing a YouTube video or believing a highly flawed and biased test, then please - by all means, enjoy.

If you want to come to LA and see the power of the Epic against anything on the market, then the invitation is open.

If you simply want to defer to a "Zacuto test" then you can keep tarnishing your own credibility as a vetted source of information.
 
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