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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Announcing RED RAVEN

Jiri Vrozina said:
... and would not be that more intelligent to use s35/full frame lenses with speed booster and having 1 STOP more light?
BTW how is low light performance on Raven?
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Listen, RAVEN is part of the WEAPON family. its going to act like a Weapon. And use an EOS mount like a Weapon. For RED to change the flange length of RAVEN to accommodate a mirrorless mount (to make room for speedbooster, etc), would be asking them to REDESIGN the Weapon from the ground up. Ie...make a NEW CAMERA system.

Which is exactly why RAVEN can be so affordable. It launches off the system that WEAPON CREATED. It's the small, baby brother.

WE need to be realistic here.


Re Lowlight:

From what I can deduce, RAVEN should shoot as clean as Dragon LLO, but with slightly better highlights.

Why?

Well, lets do the math.

1) IMHO, Epic Dragon shoots CLEAN on LLO at 800 @ 2.8
2) The DSMC2 system (ie WEAPON and I imagine RAVEN) can get a half stop cleaner in shadows.
3) The Standard OLPF appears to shift exposure a half stop under LLO.

Gain a half stop. Lose a half stop. Puts you back at CLEAN 800 ISO @ 2.8...except now you've get a half stop extra headroom in the highlights (thanks Standard OLPF!), which is kinda awesome.
 
Richard Kynaston said:
Sorry it may just be me, but I don't see this line of thought about having lost money? Im not out to make or start an argument, I like RED, Dragon, Weapon, Epic, Raven - the cameras and the sensor tech are amazing. But your Epic Dragon is just as good as it was yesterday - it will still outshine Raven, because of 5K, 6K and true 4K filming at anything other than FF. Plus you can swap the mounts, use Luts, etc... If people just want 4K, then other than Red RAW ( I accept that is a big difference over the competition ) then your just as well with Panasonic or Sony - and thats no put down to RED, each to their own. In my experience people choose RED for the quality, colour science, the ability to film higher resolution than they want, either for editing, or so the footage is available waaaay into the future, because its a higher resolution. I guess if it was me, I would be asking myself, yes some rental customers may now want/demand Raven, but how many of those would have made the jump to your Epic Dragon?

I love the RED concept, ideas and principals, but I'm not a RED fanboy - i'll go with whatever works in the price range, be that Sony, Panasonic, Arri, BM etc.. To me, the Raven is a huge step forward and i've no doubts it will disrupt somethings, but the lack of Nikon or PL means its not an option for me or the company that I work for. We need the higher 5K/6K (and hopefully soon 8K) resolution, thats fine, just means that we are not the market segment (like a lot of other producers and camera crews) that RAVEN is aimed at. But your Epic/Dragon is still worth its value for all the things you can do with it, that you cannot do with a Raven - and lets be honest, Raven is great, but for a lot of (valid reasons - and to hit the price points) its lacking in some areas. Thats fine, different models and abilities create choice and range, that has to be a good thing.

On the other side, congratulations to everyone involved - moves like this are always beneficial to everyone in the long run especially if they open up new markets, develop new technology, and/or bring down costs.
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People who would have rented an Epic Dragon (especially because of the high frame rates) might now rent a Raven, because the specs are enough, and of course will pay less money for that.
The personal production value of an Epic Dragon is still as high as ever, but if you want to sell the camera second hand, the price will not be as high as before the Raven announcement.
I am not complaining about these losses as its the way it goes with technology, these are just facts. Just everybody who already has an Epic Dragon or Weapon and doesn't need a new camera with weaker specs can't seriously celebrate today.
 
Hey Brent or Jarred,

I know you're bogged down with thousands of questions right now. But I saw in the spec's it listed the ability to work with Sony Vegas. One of my main clients uses this as a platform and currently Dragon isn't working with Sony Vegas. Yet MX still does. Is this something new? Because of the ProRes option? Just for the Raven? Or will all Dragon cameras Weapon/Epic/Scarlet be able to have footage usable in Vegas going forward?

This would be huge for us! Thanks!
 
Demetri Zuev said:
I really wish the upgrade price from Epic Dragon was $10K (with all credits and discounts considered), I'd jumped on that train in a heartbeat.
Click to expand...

Let's run some numbers. Assume you had your camera before NAB 2015...

* I assume you have an EPIC-X DRAGON. The MG Upgrade Package is retail $39,890. We are offering bundle for $34,500. You save $5390 there.
* Then you get upgrde credit of you brain of $15,500.
* You are paying a net $19,000 to trade in a brain and get back a bundle.
* Then you get an additional $5000 accessory credit.

You'd like us to take that net (including credits) from $14,000 to $10,000?

I think you guys know we are all for taking care of people already in the pipeline. But us handing over $44,890 (retail price of gear plus accessory credit) to get back $19,000 in cash plus a used brain is already near un-Business 101. Knock off another $4000?

Sorry, I know I am having my one rant for the thread, but at some point, we do have to keep the lights on at RED. I'd like some examples of other companies doing what we are doing, with trade-ins and credits specifically designed to help those already in the RED family growing as out technology grows.

At some point, the model just breaks....
 
Jeffrey Loewe said:
Hey Brent or Jarred,

I know you're bogged down with thousands of questions right now. But I saw in the spec's it listed the ability to work with Sony Vegas. One of my main clients uses this as a platform and currently Dragon isn't working with Sony Vegas. Yet MX still does. Is this something new? Because of the ProRes option? Just for the Raven? Or will all Dragon cameras Weapon/Epic/Scarlet be able to have footage usable in Vegas going forward?

This would be huge for us! Thanks!
Click to expand...

Jeffrey, I would submit a support ticket to tech support for this. Not a platform I use, so cannot give any insight.
 
Brent@RED said:
Jeffrey, I would submit a support ticket to tech support for this. Not a platform I use, so cannot give any insight.
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Will do! Thanks. Figured I'd ask here given it was listed as an option for a editing platform.

BTW Can't stress it enough. Great job on this camera! Now if only my rep wasn't traveling :)
 
Doug Laurent said:
People who would have rented an Epic Dragon (especially because of the high frame rates) might now rent a Raven, because the specs are enough, and of course will pay less money for that.
The personal production value of an Epic Dragon is still as high as ever, but if you want to sell the camera second hand, the price will not be as high as before the Raven announcement.
I am not complaining about these losses as its the way it goes with technology, these are just facts. Just everybody who already has an Epic Dragon or Weapon and doesn't need a new camera with weaker specs can't seriously celebrate today.
Click to expand...

Well then doesn't the same argument go for RED Weapon since its similar specs to EPIC Dragon? The RED Weapon is the same 6k Dragon sensor in EPIC and the same framerates. So if a person wouldn't rent a RED EPIC Dragon and go for a Raven... well then the same person won't rent a RED Weapon 6k either. I'm hoping those people that can't afford a RED Weapon 6K or RED EPIC Dragon 6k will rent my RED Raven... lol. You can't compare a 19.4 megapixels sensor at 100fps 6k to a 8.8 migapixel sensor at 4k 120fps dude.
 
Brent@RED said:
Let's run some numbers. Assume you had your camera before NAB 2015...

* I assume you have an EPIC-X DRAGON. The MG Upgrade Package is retail $39,890. We are offering bundle for $34,500. You save $5390 there.
* Then you get upgrde credit of you brain of $15,500.
* You are paying a net $19,000 to trade in a brain and get back a bundle.
* Then you get an additional $5000 accessory credit.

You'd like us to take that net (including credits) from $14,000 to $10,000?

I think you guys know we are all for taking care of people already in the pipeline. But us handing over $44,890 (retail price of gear plus accessory credit) to get back $19,000 in cash plus a used brain is already near un-Business 101. Knock off another $4000?

Sorry, I know I am having my one rant for the thread, but at some point, we do have to keep the lights on at RED. I'd like some examples of other companies doing what we are doing, with trade-ins and credits specifically designed to help those already in the RED family growing as out technology grows.

At some point, the model just breaks....
Click to expand...
i have EPIC-X DRAGON, upgrade credit 15.500$ is an awesome deal!Plus i get 5000$ accessory credit! really appreciate the offer you guys giving.
You guys are the only company doing this <3
Only downside im having which way i should go :) MG or CF , still cant decide.
 
Brent@RED said:
Thanks, Jeffrey. I seem to remember answering a lot of posts from you during SCARLET launch, right? Glad to see you again : )
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Probably. I think I was posting every 10 seconds out of excitement. That camera did wonders for me and helped me get where I'm at now. To see you guys doing this all over again is amazing.

Thanks for putting up with me and answering them all like a pro. :cheers2:
 
Kemalettin Sert said:
i have EPIC-X DRAGON, upgrade credit 15.500*$ is an awesome deal! really appreciate the offer you guys giving.
You guys are the only company doing this <3
Click to expand...

Thanks, man. Sometimes, it is just a reminder the glass is half full, you know?

Like, new-to-the-RED-family people buying WEAPON right now are pretty stoked on the price based on what they get.

See, everyone wins. Those who have been in the game since 2007, 2010, whatever. And those just now jumping in with both feet.
 
Jeffrey Loewe said:
Probably. I think I was posting every 10 seconds out of excitement. That camera did wonders for me and helped me get where I'm at now. To see you guys doing this all over again is amazing.
Click to expand...

You may have broken my PM Inbox, just sayin' :)

But, this is why we do what we do. I know working at RED changed my life. Just as I know RED cameras have changed a ton of customers' lives.

Ok, everyone ready for a group hug?
 
Brent owning a Red changed my life too :) before that one being on Reduser changed my life in first place 5 years ago..Got in the industry via Reduser thats how i started! it was just a dream for me owning a Red camera back in 2008.
 
Brent@RED said:
You may have broken my PM Inbox, just sayin' :)

But, this is why we do what we do. I know working at RED changed my life. Just as I know RED cameras have changed a ton of customers' lives.

Ok, everyone ready for a group hug?
Click to expand...
eek Sorry for that haha. Are you going back to check the history?

And changed lives isn't even the start. It actually gave me the ability to do something I wanted to do as a career. Before I got a RED I worked in a ski shop hoping to someday get out and be a cine.
 
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