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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Announcing RED RAVEN

Brent@RED said:
Let's run some numbers. Assume you had your camera before NAB 2015...

* I assume you have an EPIC-X DRAGON. The MG Upgrade Package is retail $39,890. We are offering bundle for $34,500. You save $5390 there.
* Then you get upgrde credit of you brain of $15,500.
* You are paying a net $19,000 to trade in a brain and get back a bundle.
* Then you get an additional $5000 accessory credit.

You'd like us to take that net (including credits) from $14,000 to $10,000?

I think you guys know we are all for taking care of people already in the pipeline. But us handing over $44,890 (retail price of gear plus accessory credit) to get back $19,000 in cash plus a used brain is already near un-Business 101. Knock off another $4000?

Sorry, I know I am having my one rant for the thread, but at some point, we do have to keep the lights on at RED. I'd like some examples of other companies doing what we are doing, with trade-ins and credits specifically designed to help those already in the RED family growing as out technology grows.

At some point, the model just breaks....
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Brent, I totally get your business model and have nothing but admiration of what you guys are doing with the whole upgrade idea. That post was not a "wtf, this should be cheaper" but more of a "it's a shame I personally can't afford this at the moment" kind of thing.

Just means I'll work harder to get there.

Thanks for clarifying the whole MG price construction btw, as I just hit my rep with this question and here it is already answered. Gotta love our community.
 
Awesome, Demetri, glad I could get up on my soapbox and clear it up a little.

And I totally get it. I have a few "I wish..." moments daily. Usually involves a bigger house with 3 boys running around, ha!
 
Matt Doane said:
Wasn't trying to defend the guys post or the merits of the camera(I'd personally love to have one). I get why it would upset people who work hard to get a complicated product to market. My gripe is when the leader of this forum asks someone to keep their mouth shut. I'd hope this place is for open conversation, both ways, and most of the time it is. Clearly that's not always the case as my comment was deleted.
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If you throw an insult at my team in my own house I will always swing back... that will never change.
 
Brent@RED said:
Let's run some numbers. Assume you had your camera before NAB 2015...

* I assume you have an EPIC-X DRAGON. The MG Upgrade Package is retail $39,890. We are offering bundle for $34,500. You save $5390 there.
* Then you get upgrde credit of you brain of $15,500.
* You are paying a net $19,000 to trade in a brain and get back a bundle.
* Then you get an additional $5000 accessory credit.

You'd like us to take that net (including credits) from $14,000 to $10,000?

I think you guys know we are all for taking care of people already in the pipeline. But us handing over $44,890 (retail price of gear plus accessory credit) to get back $19,000 in cash plus a used brain is already near un-Business 101. Knock off another $4000?

Sorry, I know I am having my one rant for the thread, but at some point, we do have to keep the lights on at RED. I'd like some examples of other companies doing what we are doing, with trade-ins and credits specifically designed to help those already in the RED family growing as out technology grows.

At some point, the model just breaks....
Click to expand...

+1,000

Having purchased a fairly expensive camera(that shoots 4k in a pro-dslr form factor'cough cough) and seen a company literally "abandon their product" this was a BIG deal for me. I had always been eyeballing a few options from Red but never committed. The Raven might have peaked my interest and got me here, but what sold me was the community. Thanks fellas!
 
Jarred Land said:
If you throw an insult at my team in my own house I will always swing back... that will never change.
Click to expand...

Yet another reason I adore this company and people that make it run.
The world is simple, piss on my boots, be ready to get the spur.
 
Jarred Land said:
+ full camera controls.
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Brent@RED said:
Well, crud, another cat out of the bag, hehe.
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LMAO ... this why I love coming to this forum while waiting on a my VFX runs. [current nuke run on 4k vfx is just flying along ... 14 minutes for 1200 frames, doing vfx 3d rendering directly on r3d files]

Anyone getting this RAVEN should just be freaking out with delight.
 
I placed my order yesterday. Honestly, I don't know if I'll go through with it. February's a long way away, and I may decide before then that I can't make it happen (financially speaking).

That being said, one huge plus in RED's favor is that I received a phone call - an actual phone call from an actual human - this morning confirming my order.

I mean, what company does that anymore? Definitely made me feel like a valued customer. I can't imagine any other camera company doing this.
 
Doug Laurent said:
People who would have rented an Epic Dragon (especially because of the high frame rates) might now rent a Raven, because the specs are enough, and of course will pay less money for that.
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Yes, fair point - I hadn't considered the frame rate aspect!

Doug Laurent said:
The personal production value of an Epic Dragon is still as high as ever, but if you want to sell the camera second hand, the price will not be as high as before the Raven announcement.
I am not complaining about these losses as its the way it goes with technology, these are just facts. Just everybody who already has an Epic Dragon or Weapon and doesn't need a new camera with weaker specs can't seriously celebrate today.
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But isn't that just market place development? I don't hear people who have just bought a top of the range BMW making similar comments when the next new model comes out. I'm not arguing in anyway however! With the speed of technology today, surely depreciation with new models is factored into purchases isnt it? I know it is with the company I work for. I guess its all a matter of degrees at the end of the day as to what is and is not considered with purchases and depreciation.

But to me, and I'll openly admit I may be totally wrong in this, the two cameras are different beasts. Yes, there is some overlap, and any second hand sale may not be quiet as easy, but the feature list of an Epic, doesn't match a Raven, so I would have thought that the second hand value is relatively similar to what it was previously? Openly admit, that if the Raven had replaced the Epic model, then yes, a heavy hit would be incurred, but it doesn't.

Just my thoughts however! I'll shut up now and dream of the announcement from RED that a PL mount version is on the horizon ;)
 
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Once again... if someone wouldn't rent a EPIC Dragon due to comparable framerates at 4k on the Raven... that person wouldn't likely rent a Weapon 6k or 8k either. The Weapon 6k is exactly the same frame rates as EPIC Dragon.
 
Raven looks amazing. Lighter camera in the new form with on board prores and high speed is immensely tempting for those of us who don't need super high res.

Great work on this camera, the value is insane for the specs!
 
I put my pre-order in earlier today. Very excited! when I was first looking for a camera I was looking at RED back when the 3k43k was going on but could not afford the scarlet at the time.

When the BlackMagic camera came out I picked up one of those and liked it a lot but was looking to upgrade to the URSA mini for the slow-mo as I manly do music videos. But when I saw the price for a package for the Raven and the specs I couldn't pass up going a little overboard budget-wise to pick up a camera that for me has no compromises.

Thanks RED for bringing your amazing technologies and unique products to a new group of cinematographers :-)
 
This is in conjunction with post #667 in this thread

FWIW I reported to Sony 12 months ago that Vegas Pro doesn't work with Dragon R3D. On 10/17/14, Vegas support sent me a message "This is listed as a known issue in our database, to be resolved in a future application update" . When I enquired re an expected timeframe for the fix on 10/20/17 I got "We are not able to hard schedule updates or specific fixes, as the new builds have to pass QA previous to release." Yesterday I actually emailed Michael Bryant, head of marketing at Sony USA re the longstanding lack of Dragon support (while Sony website continues to list R3D support), I got an email back that this was the first request he's heard for Dragon support and he was adding it to the list of features being considered for the next update, but that that was already a long list. Red support was very helpful back then in verifying very quickly that a test Dragon R3D I sent to Sony was fine. To complicate the Dragon R3D story, I do think that Dragon R3D file spec changed at some stage, as the R3D that can be downloaded here works in Sony Vegas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZwPoFwlZJE
 
Werner Jauch said:
FWIW I reported to Sony 12 months ago that Vegas Pro doesn't work with Dragon R3D. On 10/17/14, Vegas support sent me a message "This is listed as a known issue in our database, to be resolved in a future application update" . When I enquired re an expected timeframe for the fix on 10/20/17 I got "We are not able to hard schedule updates or specific fixes, as the new builds have to pass QA previous to release." Yesterday I actually emailed Michael Bryant, head of marketing at Sony USA re the longstanding lack of Dragon support (while Sony website continues to list R3D support), I got an email back that this was the first request he's heard for Dragon support and he was adding it to the list of features being considered for the next update, but that that was already a long list. Red support was very helpful back then in verifying very quickly that a test Dragon R3D I sent to Sony was fine. To complicate the Dragon R3D story, I do think that Dragon R3D file spec changed at some stage, as the R3D that can be downloaded here works in Sony Vegas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZwPoFwlZJE
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We are checking into this to see if they need any help. I will always have a special place in my heart for Sony Vegas.. it is what I learned on when it was sonic foundry vegas and it does alot of things really great.
 
Jarred Land said:
We are checking into this to see if they need any help. I will always have a special place in my heart for Sony Vegas.. it is what I learned on when it was sonic foundry vegas and it does alot of things really great.
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Jarred thanks so much! Thanks for everything you do. Between the Raven, Faster power up times for all cameras and now looking into the Sony Vegas issue you've literally made just about every production issue I have either resolved or in the process of being resolved in under 24 hours! Who does that?!
 
Jarred Land said:
I will always have a special place in my heart for Sony Vegas.. it is what I learned on when it was sonic foundry vegas and it does alot of things really great.
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you and me both.. I still remember the looks I used to get when trying to explain how awesome it was to the avid/fcp guys.
 
for people asking about PL mounts, I think this was a pretty genius decision by Red to make EF mount only despite the fact that I myself ofcourse would love for it to have interchangeable mounts. Because let's be real if the Raven had PL mount AND hdr-x as some are complaining about and things of that nature then there truly would be next to no point in getting a full dragon or weapon. But by not including PL mount it pretty much gimps the camera and ensures that the camera can never be a true A-cam on any high end production which firmly places it into the targeted demographic and keeps the dragons/weapons in their high end pro demographic
 
Peter Dmitriyev said:
for people asking about PL mounts, I think this was a pretty genius decision by Red to make EF mount only despite the fact that I myself ofcourse would love for it to have interchangeable mounts. Because let's be real if the Raven had PL mount AND hdr-x as some are complaining about and things of that nature then there truly would be next to no point in getting a full dragon or weapon. But by not including PL mount it pretty much gimps the camera and ensures that the camera can never be a true A-cam on any high end production which firmly places it into the targeted demographic and keeps the dragons/weapons in their high end pro demographic
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I don't think RED is thinking from such a nefarious point of view... the fact is Canon EF is becoming a very viable mount... especially for the Vista Vision 8k... there are a lot of full frame cinema lenses readily available in EF mount to perfectly cover the sensor size of the VV 8k... even from brands such as Angenieux & Zeiss. RED is smart enough to realize trends... and adapt. Soon other manufacturers will release EF mount and perhaps full frame versions of their higher end lenses. When that happens... why stick with PL when you can use your EF lenses on a wider range of camera systems?
 
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