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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Angenieux Optimo rouge - basic informations.

laguun said:
Angenieux will introduce Optimo lenses for the red.
I just spoke with angenieux, here are the basic specifications:

Its called Optimo Rouge
no ramping or breathing,
30-80mm,
T:2.8,
calibrated focus marks,

lightweight compact PL mount lens,
weight 4.2 lbs/1.9 kg.

http://www.angenieux.com/index.php?rub=48&art=142

interesting facts:
- will be shown and presented at NAB
- price set to match reds offer (wow). I quote: "we intend to offer the price/performance red has". It will cost more than reds zooms, but "not to much".
- delivery if orderer now ~5-7 months. This is pretty fast, many angenieux lenses take a good year.
- Angenieux introduces this series especially for digital cinematography, and the characteristics are designed with that in mind
- exact details at NAB

We use and offer many types angenieux lenses (7.8*26, 5.3*10, 25*10, 9.5 etc) and are very happy customers of their excellent glass.

Its a very pleasant surprise that now already one of the 3 european specialists (cooke/angenieux/zeiss(arri)) took the challenge.
Click to expand...

I heard rumors of about $20K for pricing. Rumors mind you.
 
Thats great news about the lenses!
By the way, Laguun the plural of information is..information.
But I guess you are writing with an accent so you are allowed to get away with it! Happy Easter.
 
So, with an 18-85, 50-150 Red, and a 30-80 Angie, what's everyone's opinion on which would be the most useful if you had a full set of Ultra Primes (16-135)?


18-85 covers most focal lengths, sounds nice but it's 10" and 10 lbs.
30-80 doesn't, but it's 4 lbs, and a known entity as far as quality.
50-150 extends to the medium long end, which is appealing. Especially if you plan to rent an Optimo 25-250 for the longer end range, and bigger setups.

Thoughts?
 
Mark Pedersen said:
So, with an 18-85, 50-150 Red, and a 30-80 Angie, what's everyone's opinion on which would be the most useful if you had a full set of Ultra Primes (16-135)?


18-85 covers most focal lengths, sounds nice but it's 10" and 10 lbs.
30-80 doesn't, but it's 4 lbs, and a known entity as far as quality.
50-150 extends to the medium long end, which is appealing. Especially if you plan to rent an Optimo 25-250 for the longer end range, and bigger setups.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I think the 25-250 Angie will remain the workhorse.

If the 30-80 really improves image quality to 4k (mind you, neither master primes or zeiss resolve 4K w/o issues) and is not breathing at all, i think its a no brainer to add it, as it would be -the- steady/hand/rungun/wild lens then.

the red 18-50 zoom have a very good price/performance and a good image, however, they are mechanically not on the level of angenieux (dust can enter/slight focus moves etc). So for price/performance, they are certainly the best new PL mounted zooms.

I cant comment on the new red zoom - havent used it so far for obvious reasons :)

p.s. the optimo is the 24-290, thats the newer longrange. The 25 is the classic angenieux zoom, which, starting with kubricks barry lyndon, was basically the "default" top-zoom of the industry until the 24-290 was offered.
 
Sorry, my age is showing. I meant the 24-290. ;)

What do you mean when you say that neither the Master Primes or Zeiss (do you mean Ultra Primes?) don't resolve 4K without issues?

M
 
Mark Pedersen said:
Sorry, my age is showing. I meant the 24-290. ;)
Click to expand...
hrrhrr, yeah, the 25-250 was (and often still is) the "zoom" for decades now...

Mark Pedersen said:
What do you mean when you say that neither the Master Primes or Zeiss (do you mean Ultra Primes?) don't resolve 4K without issues?
M
Click to expand...
No, i mean Master Primes.

The Master Primes have chromatic aberration in 4K. We tested them at once as soon we got the first reds, back in oct. 2007.

look at the uploaded sample: Thats an enlarged close of a MP-shot in 4K. In the lower right, you will see violet/purple ca, look at the upper left, you will see yellow ca.

results have been doublechecked with other master primes, shot was T4.
the resolution power of the MP is good however.

The zeiss had better CA performance, however, these were becoming slightly soft to the borders.
 
laguun said:
hrrhrr, yeah, the 25-250 was (and often still is) the "zoom" for decades now...


No, i mean Master Primes.

The Master Primes have chromatic aberration in 4K. We tested them at once as soon we got the first reds, back in oct. 2007.

look at the uploaded sample: Thats an enlarged close of a MP-shot in 4K. In the lower right, you will see violet/purple ca, look at the upper left, you will see yellow ca.

results have been doublechecked with other master primes, shot was T4.
the resolution power of the MP is good however.

The zeiss had better CA performance, however, these were becoming slightly soft to the borders.
Click to expand...

What MP lenses these picture was shot with? 16mm MP?
I found out that MPs are very sensitive about back focus +- 2microns and they will get soft.
 
Andrew said:
What MP lenses these picture was shot with? 16mm MP?
Click to expand...

i am not 100% sure which lens from the many different tested is visible on the uploaded example - i think that particular one was the 18mm or the 35 (would have to dig out the metadata, as different lenses of different sets were in use to make sure that it was not the individual set or lens..).

However it doesnt matter that much - the results were pretty similar throughout the different lenses.

Andrew said:
I found out that MPs are very sensitive about back focus +- 2microns and they will get soft.
Click to expand...
The MP didnt have problems getting soft - their weak aspect (in 4K) is the chromatic aberration. The zeiss primes had less resolution power toward the edges, but CA was less intense.
 
laguun said:
i am not 100% sure which lens from the many different tested is visible on the uploaded example - i think that particular one was the 18mm or the 35 (would have to dig out the metadata, as different lenses of different sets were in use to make sure that it was not the individual set or lens..).

However it doesnt matter that much - the results were pretty similar throughout the different lenses.


The MP didnt have problems getting soft - their weak aspect (in 4K) is the chromatic aberration. The zeiss primes had less resolution power toward the edges, but CA was less intense.
Click to expand...

Definitively there is something wrong with your picture or the picture is coming from MP 18mm
Back focus has to be adjusted on RED when you put MP very carefully. MPs are very sensitive to back focus distance, more than any other Zeiss lenses.
Look on CA on MP 65mm far right side of the frame, no CA at all at 200lp/pmm
http://www.reduser.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=415&d=1176398283
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1475&highlight=zeiss

and look on micrometer gage, the black marks are showing the acceptable back focus for most of the lenses. This one (MP 65mm) was going very soft with bad CA when needle moved half the way (first number on the scale) see left lower corner of the lens picture.

805_1206192566.jpg



http://www.reduser.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=414&d=1176398283

Different story on 18mm or on UPR8

http://www.reduser.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=418&d=1176471905
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=26784&postcount=27

Andrew
 
Andrew said:
Definitively there is something wrong with your picture or the picture is coming from MP 18mm
Back focus has to be adjusted on RED when you put MP very carefully. MPs are very sensitive to back focus distance, more than any other Zeiss lenses.
Click to expand...

i would agree, but the results were consistent with different lenses of the same type and different BF... while other lenses didnt show the CA. Also the 1st AC was a very good one...

Another point - in the full image, the CA gets weaker, almost disappears to the middle, but is present in the edges in different MP lenses, which exactly speaks for a lens characteristic, not BF, as sharpness is identical throughout the image.

And dont get me wrong, the MP are very good lenses, their resolution was in the best results of all lenses on the red. But the CA at the edges is to strong to be not mentioned.

I smalltalked with arri employees regarding this topic (i wont give names however, they insisted on that) and they explained me that they suspect the angles the lightrays hit the 4K CMOS might have an role in this.

I am pretty curious if the "designed for 1 chip 35mm cameras" angenieuxs optimo rouge will show a different behaviour, cant wait to get my hands on that lens.

PS:
I have looked at the metadata - seems to be the 18mm.
 
It could be something to do with the refraction (don’t mix with deffraction) slight bending of the light by OLPF that is high above the Mysterium?
I don’t know how high it is but normally should be just a millimetre or two above the sensor surface.


Also 18 mm has some CA two pixels wide or so.
As to your picture above, is this crop of the corner or what part of picture it is? How many 4k pixels across?
 
I tested a range of lenses on a SI-2k the other day. The OLPF causes problems. When using a Zoom that is very retrofocal (to the point that the light out the back is very telecentric) you get very good results.

If using a wide prime lens I saw CA and sizable backfocus problems. The back focus pproblems are solvable on the SI-2k by using per lens PL mounts. The CA?

I believe the above may to a lesser extent be applicable to Red.

reagrds

Michael
 
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