Anamorphics on the V-Raptor X

[Steven Belcher]

At wits end with this. As a V-Raptor X owner, I've been researching the best "affordable" anamorphic lenses to go with, but it seems like the technical info on what squeeze factor to go with is muddy, at best.

To those who shoot anamorphic on the V-Raptor X, for the love of god, what's the best way to go? 2x? 1.5x? Something else? Full-Frame (LF)? S35? Blazar? Laowa?

With the V-Raptor having a 17:9 sensor, I am so confused on what the best route to go is... can this thing do true open gate? What mode is the best?

Some clarity on all of this would be life-changing. Thanks friends!

 

[Satsuki Murashige]

Anamorphic lenses are about ‘baking in’ a special look - otherwise, you might as well just shoot spherical and crop to the desired aspect ratio. All of the lenses listed look very different and to be honest, none of them have the classic 1970s-80s scope lens characteristics that most DP’s want (namely Panavision C and E-Series, JDC Xtals, Technovision, Lomo Roundfront, etc). Of the under $10K USD lenses, the DZO Pavo Blue flare probably come closest. After that, the Xelmus Apollos are your best bet. Not cheap though.

To that end, I’d make the technical specs secondary when choosing ‘scope lenses (unless you absolutely need certain specs for the project like size, weight, or close focus). Find the particular look that you like best, then make that lens set work for your camera system. Shot Deck, Frame Set, and online lens tests are helpful resources.

You can make practically any lens work with the V-Raptor by cropping the 8K sensor to fit the lens circle coverage and desired final aspect ratio. 99% of the classic anamorphic glass that everyone wants was made for S35 Full Aperture, so with those lenses you’d be cropping significantly anyway. Nobody seems to mind…

Also, Open Gate just refers to the largest recordable area of a particular camera’s sensor (especially if it differs from the typical delivery aspect ratios), it doesn’t really refer to a specific aspect ratio. It came about because people shooting on the original ARRI Alexa wanted to record more space around the frame lines for VFX. The Alexa was a unique digital camera at the time because it used a larger sensor than the recorded area to show the camera operator the boom before it was going to enter the top of frame - something that they were used to with film cameras. But then people requested that ARRI make that lookaround area recordable, and so Open Gate was born.

Open Gate has come to imply a taller aspect ratio than the typically delivery format of 16:9, which is why it tends to work better with anamorphic lenses which usually require some cropping of the horizontal axis to arrive at 2.39:1. But Red cameras have always had 2:1 or DCI 17:9 sensors, so you’ll always end up cropping more with Red. That is offset somewhat by starting from a sensor with a higher pixel count.

 

[Steven Belcher]

Thanks for the info. The Pavos & Apollos are incredible, but definitely out of my price range, especially the latter. I think at this point the best approach is to just rent better anamorphics as needed, for now. The Nanomorphs seem to be a little too clinical/clean for my tastes, and the Blazar Remus & Catos look like they have far more problems than they're worth, even as cheap as they are.

Thanks again!

 

[Alex Lubensky]

You're looking for something that simply doesn't exist. Any anamorphic lens is a spherical lens + anamorphic block, several have complicated focusing mechanisms (like Panavision, Xelmus etc), others usually utilize a variable diopter as a focusing mechanism. All those things make a lens pretty complicated, and therefore - not cheap. While Sirui did hit the trend a lot with a word "anamorphic", they are far from what people actually are looking for in terms of look and quality. Basically, Blazar is the cheapest option that does deliver on the look side, and DZO + Laowa coming close after at 5,5k per lens. Then there's Atlas with their 2x and 1.5x options at 7,5 and 9k, and after there's Xelmus at 17k as I recall. Top tier that can be bought are Arri MA and Cooke 2x Ana and 2x Ana FF at around 35k per lens. Also, there are some rehoused lenses, like P+S Kowa, but usually one can't buy them immediately. Pretty much that's it for anamorphics that can be purchased, other options are more like a tedious process sourcing donor optics and rehousing them.

Speaking of my own preference - my hits are Laowa Proteus (best look for the buck), and Atlas, and, of course, Xelmus. I'd take one Xelmus over 2 Atlas lenses any day for their counter-rotating astigmatizers and therefore - flares. Blazar do deliver decent image for the money paid also, but one has to be careful with moving camera, especially on wider lenses.

Hawk are out of equation, because nowadays they seem to have shifted into rental only or leased business model. Good lenses will always cost a lot, no matter how progressive the market will become, it's mainly about more options are there - but you always pay for what you get.

 

[Alex Lubensky]

Also, look at anything above 1.5x as a stretch - lower than that the squeeze factor is so minimal, that it's literally not worth the hassle.

 

[Phil Holland]

Start here.

 

[Steven Belcher]

You're looking for something that simply doesn't exist. Any anamorphic lens is a spherical lens + anamorphic block, several have complicated focusing mechanisms (like Panavision, Xelmus etc), others usually utilize a variable diopter as a focusing mechanism. All those things make a lens pretty complicated, and therefore - not cheap. While Sirui did hit the trend a lot with a word "anamorphic", they are far from what people actually are looking for in terms of look and quality. Basically, Blazar is the cheapest option that does deliver on the look side, and DZO + Laowa coming close after at 5,5k per lens. Then there's Atlas with their 2x and 1.5x options at 7,5 and 9k, and after there's Xelmus at 17k as I recall. Top tier that can be bought are Arri MA and Cooke 2x Ana and 2x Ana FF at around 35k per lens. Also, there are some rehoused lenses, like P+S Kowa, but usually one can't buy them immediately. Pretty much that's it for anamorphics that can be purchased, other options are more like a tedious process sourcing donor optics and rehousing them.

Speaking of my own preference - my hits are Laowa Proteus (best look for the buck), and Atlas, and, of course, Xelmus. I'd take one Xelmus over 2 Atlas lenses any day for their counter-rotating astigmatizers and therefore - flares. Blazar do deliver decent image for the money paid also, but one has to be careful with moving camera, especially on wider lenses.

Hawk are out of equation, because nowadays they seem to have shifted into rental only or leased business model. Good lenses will always cost a lot, no matter how progressive the market will become, it's mainly about more options are there - but you always pay for what you get.

Yeah I love the Atlas Orions. That's the dream. Not familiar with the Proteus line, but I'm a big fan of Laowa so I'll look into those. I was almost totally sold on the Blazar Catos, but the barrel distortion on the 55mm is absolutely horrific, IMHO.

Either way, it'll likely be a rental situation for now, until the types of projects coming in warrant owning a solid set.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Steven Belcher]

Start here.

Super helpful! Thanks Phil.

 

[Remington Chase]

We are currently shooting a big budget action movie on the Viltrox FF 1.3 EPIC's on Raptor X and really loving the look.

 

[Phil Holland]

We are currently shooting a big budget action movie on the Viltrox FF 1.3 EPIC's on Raptor X and really loving the look.

Probably the most interesting set of 1.3X I've seen in a long time.

 

[Steven Belcher]

We are currently shooting a big budget action movie on the Viltrox FF 1.3 EPIC's on Raptor X and really loving the look.

Looked at those as well. Surprising amount of character for 1.3x. Still very much out of my budget though, for now.

I think the move for owning, at this point, is the Blazar Remus B-set. I'm just starting to get serious about shooting anamorphic, so I feel like that's a great starter set to get my feet wet. If in the future projects are coming in to the point where owning a higher-end set makes sense then I'll revisit.

Thanks for chiming in everyone!

 

[Alex Lubensky]

Looked at those as well. Surprising amount of character for 1.3x. Still very much out of my budget though, for now.

I think the move for owning, at this point, is the Blazar Remus B-set. I'm just starting to get serious about shooting anamorphic, so I feel like that's a great starter set to get my feet wet. If in the future projects are coming in to the point where owning a higher-end set makes sense then I'll revisit.

Thanks for chiming in everyone!

The reason why Viltrox have character on 1.3x is because they have a double stretch. They have something like 2x in the front, and then they have a rear-anamorphic adapter in the back to squeeze 2x into 1.3x, or something like that. It's a rather smart way to have more character on a 1.3x stretch (because basically it's the 2x stretch in the look), but any of the other 1.3x lenses don't have that look and it's not the actual case with the 1.3x itself.

The reason is that rear anamorphic blocks (often used in zoom lenses) don't change the look of the bokeh, it's already formed with the whole image in the lens entrance pupil, which is usually somewhere in the middle of the lens (and by saying that it's a wild oversimplification). So if you combine a front anamorphic block with an additional rear one - you can get the look of the front one on a less of a squeeze. As I understand, that's the case with Viltrox, and I did forget about them.