Anamorphic on Scarlet X workflow...

[Mike P.]

Using the 4:3 frame guides is how you'd have to do it; when desqueezed that'd be 2.66, so you'd still have to crop a bit, which brings your resolution down a little further. That's essentially what Haywire did; shot 4k but used ~2.5-3k extraction desqueezed and cropped for 2.39:1?

Can you post a .r3d still, I'd love to see how something like this looks in practice at "full res" after being desqueezed and cropped. There's quite a bit of resolution loss (4:3 = 2873x2160) but I'm hopeful that it's still enough...

I still don't understand why RED don't use the full sensor height (3240x2700 for 2.4:1 with 2x anamorphic lenses) for an ANA mode; it's less read/write pixels than 4096x2160. If the BlackMagic (or digital bolex) end up releasing a full sensor mode (which has been discussed) it would actually be the same (resolution wise; it has a 2560x2160 sensor) to the Scarlet after cropping when using 2x anamorphics.

 

[Andy White]

Haywire went an interesting route - info here: http://michaelcioni.tumblr.com/page/3 - LightIron did the DI

.1. We have a 3K anamorphic source R3D picture (2816x2304) which is roughly 6 megapixles(this is 3x larger than standard DCI 2K and 3.5x larger than HDTV 1080p)
2. We have to debayer every frame using the RedRocket card at 24 frames per second
3. We have to desqueeze the X (east and west) every frame using the graphics card to 1.5x = 4224
4. We have to desqueeze the Y (north and south) every frame using the graphics card to .75 = 1728
(“Y” desqueezes are always 50% of the X)
This leaves us with the desqueezed resolution of 4224x1728. That’s the equivalent aspect ratio of 2.44:1 in 4K. So even though Haywire starts in 3K anamorphic, it ends up turning into 4K and the rendered grades, shapes, results, titles and visual effects needed to be all calculated in 4K.
5. Because the picture is 2.44, we are a little too big for cinema, so we have to crop about 1% off every frame and do a center extraction of 1% in order to make it fit academy 2.40:1
6. Then we take every debayered, desqueezed, cropped and center-extracted frame and scale it down 2048x1080 (2K projection on a Christie CP2000)
Each frame as it is played must go through every one of these steps prior to color correction. Only after these calculations are performed can we start to color correct…

REDthread here - http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...ergh-s-HAYWIRE-Opens-Friday&highlight=haywire

 

[Mike P.]

Haywire went an interesting route - info here: http://michaelcioni.tumblr.com/page/3 - LightIron did the DI



REDthread here - http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...ergh-s-HAYWIRE-Opens-Friday&highlight=haywire

Cool, thanks for the link. I remember reading that... the details were just the exact opposite of what I was thinking (shot 3k, "extract (desqueeze)" 4k). I'm going to re-read that article; does Cioni explain why they went with 3k ana instead of 4k ana? In either case, I'd love to use the whole 1.3x/2700 of the sensor even if it's only in one dimension via a 2x anamorphic mode.

Does anyone have any Scarlet .r3d still with anamorphic lenses? I'd like to see what it looks like desqueezed at full/raw resolution.

 

[Ev Shipard]

Mike, here are a couple of random frames (one 4kHD and the other 4K)...
http://www.cartelArtists.com/client_area/misc/A004_C024_04151W.zip
http://www.cartelArtists.com/client_area/misc/A006_C009_0513LH.zip

Andy, I've been framing with the 4:3 guide imagining I would extract this later from the 16:9 image. Obviously 4KHD would be preferable as it it is closer to the 4:3 aspect than 4K.
I created a new project in Premiere as 1828x1556 pixel aspect x2. When dropping the 4kHD R3Ds in they still seemed squished so it isn't cropping the edges.
I then set up a 4KHD project with pixel aspect x2 and dropped in my tests. I had to scale these in the effect panel in X by 200%. Is there a way to set the pixel aspect on the footage?- under properties it says 1.0. This still gives me a wide format that needs to be cropped for 2.4:1. I can probably guess-timate with the margins or drop in a correct aspect with an alpha as another layer but that all seems a bit of a hack to get what I need.

 

[Ev Shipard]

Looking forward to that next Scarlet firmware update with 3K anamorphic source (2816x2304)... nudge, wink.

 

[George Su]

Ev,
would you be comfortable posting a frame or two of raw squeezed footage, so we can all take a crack at coming up with a post workflow? i'm curious to try it out!

 

[Ev Shipard]

George, both the above frames are anamorphic squeezed- one at 4k and one at 4kHD.

 

[Andy White]

Ev - I was playing around last night... nothing really successful apart from actual 5K Ana. All involve zoom/crop etc (when using 3K/4K as project settings).

The problem with X2 Ana lenses on the 16:9 sensor is the wider ratio. taking a 4:3 extraction still gives the issue of the footage being 'taller' than X2. It's the issue a lot of the DSLR crowd find when they record X2 on 16:6/1920x1080. The correct aspect ratio correction is something like 3:55:1 - I can't remember the exact number, but it's narrow (and then needs zooming in and cropping too - hence image quality loss if the source clip is HD).

On other software I've used, it was possible to change the pixel aspect ratio of the clip (not just the project) - that would help in this case... might be a feature to ask to be added?

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...orphic-on-Epic - here's a recent thread by ianbloom (in case you missed it) & one here too http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?79173-A-little-Scarlet-music-video-with-Kowa-Anamorphics

5K Ana creates a Project size of 3296X2700 (X2 A/R). I can't seem to find the pre-set in Premiere for it (might be me - or it might not be in the RED presets?)... but dragging a 5K Ana clip in and allowing it to match the clip's properties gives this size (and a yellow play head etc). Problem is you'll still need to enlarge the source and stretch it in X to get the correct A/R. Maybe create a smaller project that only means you scale the image in Y... without having to zoom in (ie keep image quality by not zooming in)... and this will give you the crop, as you'll be loosing/cropping material on screen left/right... useful if you want any re-frame in X.

 

[Mike P.]

Thanks a million Ev. I'm going to tinker around now.

Andy, you're right... It is 3.55:1, which is why I wanted full-res r3ds to work from (to see what it looks like when I extract a 2.35:1 frame out of the 3.55:1 source.) At 4k/4kHD I'm hopeful that it'll still retain a lot of detail when super sampled down to 1080p. And, yeah, that's why an ana-res of 3296:2700 or even a 3240:2700 (exactly 1.2:1, which would become 2.4:1 after 2x desqueeze) would be awesome... Plus at 3240x2700 it's less than the pixels/sec of 4k that the Scarlet can currently handle.

 

[George Su]

George, both the above frames are anamorphic squeezed- one at 4k and one at 4kHD.

Ah, thanks Ev!

Here's what I came up with:
1) exported 4KHD to 4KHD prores file
2) in FCP, dropped file into 4KHD timeline
3) changed ASPECT RATIO to -50
4) changed SCALE to 113.5

I used a frame of the unsqueezed file with a 2.35 matte to match up the frame size, which is how i came up with 113.5.

 

[Peter Mosiman]

I will most likely be fucking around with this all weekend on a short film. Didnt know scarlet didn't have the option to do ANA until today (been so used to the epic). hopefully it doesn't screw us!!

I wonder why RED hasn't put out a build with 4k ANA for the scarlet yet. Its been a long time since it was released...

 

[Jack Shanahan]

+ 1 on 4K ana for Scarlet

 

[Mike P.]

I'd think if they did 4k ANA, they'd have no reason not to do 5k ANA as well, so they're just skipping ana on Scarlet altogether... 3296 x 2700 pixels = 8.9mp per frame. Pretty dang close to the 8.85mp of 4k, but you'd be using the entire height of the sensor (mmmmmm.)

 

[Matthew Scott]

Is this something I should just forget about? Or is it a possibility for scarlet?

 

[Ben Scott]

I genuinely can't see any new Scarlet-X features on the horizon.

 

[Mike P.]

So sad... oh so sad.


I'm still hoping for 4.5k WS at 24fps. It'll happen. If you hope long enough, it'll happen...


ugh.

 

[Angello Faccini]

I was reading a lot of information here before shooting a couple of days ago a sequence in SCARLETX-LOMO SQUARE ANAMORPHICS. Not budget it all, I operate myself with a TV LOGIC to de-squeezed the image. I attach some pictures of the shooting. Any of you know if its possible to make proxies in DAVINCI-RESOLVE or is just possible with the RED CINE?

Thanks

Angello