An Epic First Day :)

[Ketch Rossi]

Hey Michael,

thanks for the great post and just advises, something that many unfortunately do not take serious consideration of.

I think that I will visit you again, this time in your new facility, been wanting to drop by when I went to Red Studios
but didn't make it.

Will have one last chat before I leave for Italy, and most likely I will hire your services to assist in the building of our
Stations for our new Studios in Italy, so that our Epic 3D rigs will work with out ever bottle necking ;

Thanks again for the nice post.. and btw, why so many iPads??

I know you have been using with your fantastic App to view Dailies on set, but what is your application for that many?

 

[Michael Olsen]

Michael -

That was so much more than I expected and full of some very sage advice! While my personal productions aren't anywhere near this sort of scope, what you have said has already influenced my future plans.

A huge thank you.

It sounds like Epic is keeping you on your toes :beer:

 

[Elsie N]

Michael -

That was so much more than I expected and full of some very sage advice! While my personal productions aren't anywhere near this sort of scope, what you have said has already influenced my future plans.

Ditto

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

This thread makes me horny...

 

[Ketch Rossi]

This thread makes me horny...

haha

 

[Roxco]

Why so many iPads?

Why so many iPads?

Thanks again for the nice post.. and btw, why so many iPads??

I know you have been suing with your fantastic App to view Dailies on set, but what is your application for that many?

I'm sure this just has to do with the number of people who might want to vote on their dailies. The more people that get to vote the more ownership they will feel on a big production. Besides the cost of the iPads is small compared to size of the production so having extras...

Hopefully Michael will chime in when he gets a chance,

R

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

Many thanks for the glimpse into the new requirements for a solid EPIC workflow, Michael. Hugely helpful in preparing for the arrival of these new cams.

any chance you can be more specific about how you're eliminating dependence on FW800? is this with esata and RED workstations? or something else?

 

[Sean Rawls]

3. Look at different transfer potentials. We have been relying heavily on SAS (we did all of Pirates 4 with MAXX Digital SAS Raids) and lots of eSata shuttles. GTech now makes an incredible, quiet, and mobile SAS Raid (GSpeed eS Pro)which can easily deliver over 500MB/s R&W (4-8TBs @ Raid

4. Multiple Computer Terminals. With 2+ camera shows (or in 3D 4+ camera shows), you will need to have multiple computers to aid in the processing, checking, viewing, coloring, transferring, etc, of these files. Design your stations to handle more than 1 CPU.
m

Hey Michael,

Excellent post, that's for taking the time. I have two questions:

Relating to your point #3 I completely agree but no matter how fast your kit storage solutions are for non-feature commercial work the bottleneck will always be check summing to external client drives. How do you avoid this? The clients I work with frequently purchase G-Tech drives with eSata ports, but it is still a significant bottleneck. How can this be overcome to quickly send the client away with two check summed copies (I keep one copy on my Raid until the Post house verifies they have it in their system).

To your point #4, I've been exploring the multiple tower option after getting slammed on some 2 camera interview shows recently (And looking forward to 3D). How do you move files between the towers? I see an Xserve in your Outpost system . . . sure that has something to do with it. Currently I feel like Ethernet is too slow to justify the advantage of multiple towers. Anyone got a bead on 10Gb Ethernet cards for Mac? Any thoughts you can share that aren't confidential?

Thanks again for sharing your experiences,

 

[Peter Franzen]

Michael,
Thanks for the incredible post.

How do you anticipate the h264 camera module will affect the workflow? It seems like processing the raw footage into h264 for dailies would be one of the more time-consuming aspects of the workflow. Do you think that will be a "must have" accessory on projects like this?

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Thanks for the insight Michael. Are you exclusively copying to RAID or also creating a tape as well or are you leaving backup to the post house once they receive the shuttle?

re: Shallow DOF in 3D, I prefer it as well as long as convergence is at the focus point. The problem with stereo is that when you converge on something you get the "cross-eyed" effect in everything else. But when the double vision is out of focus it blurs together and is less noticeable. And with convergence "at the screen" my eyes can just focus on the screen as they normally would and converge as they normally would on a 2D movie but happen to get dimensionality.

 

[Tobias Straka]

This thread makes me horny...

Post of the day. Agreed...:drool:

 

[Elsie N]

Does 3-D work in low light shots?

 

[Patrick Tresch]

Does 3-D work in low light shots?

As of my experience with 3D. It works also in low light shots if there is some contrast in the frame and in the specific area where you want to have a depth sensation. I white surface without any detail will also kill the 3D feeling and be seen as a 2D picture without depth.

Pat

 

[Shawn Nelson]

Thank you Michael! Very informative and appreciated thread.

Question...why is the data 2-3x MX RC42?? I was expecting about 1.5x. I dont understand more than double.

 

[gbalaji]

I believe John, Michael doing great job with Epic. Thanks for the post to re-evaluate our Digital cinema camera knowledge with MX & Alexas. It's time to move to next stage of digital cinema data management.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Question...why is the data 2-3x MX RC42?? I was expecting about 1.5x. I dont understand more than double.

More pixels, more bits per pixel, lower compression ratio.. At 5:1, you're looking at around 120MB/s for full 5K 5120x2700. This translates into an average of about 7.3GB/minute or falls right into the 6GB-8GB/minute that Michael mentions.

 

[Brian Petrie]

More pixels, more bits per pixel, lower compression ratio.. At 5:1, you're looking at around 120MB/s for full 5K 5120x2700. This translates into an average of about 7.3GB/minute or falls right into the 6GB-8GB/minute that Michael mentions.

Agree, Jim always stated 5k is 60% more information that 4k, add in 16 bit and lower compression and I'd say we are lucky it's only that much more haha.

 

[Brian Petrie]

We are also lucky we got SSD!:wink5:

 

[David Lagos]

Oh boy...

Oh boy...

What is important for all soon-to-be Epic users is to start brainstorming a way to manage their Epic data which, compared to RED MX:
1. is 2-3 times larger than MX RC42
2. is saved to cards that are 128GBs (8x larger than 16GB CF)
3. requires window-burned 3D side-by-side file creation (for 3D shows)
4. requires convergence adjustments (popular 3D trend is to shoot parallel)
5. requires 3x copies of all media prior to leaving set each day

Without a newly optimized set of gear, productions could fall behind set and the data-techs/DITs/wranglers will be left on set backing up and processing for hours after wrap.

The simplest way to start preparing for this is to make sure you can maintain the ability to move files in real time. In other words, your system needs to be capable of moving up to 8GBs-10GBs to multiple locations in 1 minute's time. RED has helped solve the problem with the new RED Stations, which deliver incredible speeds of SSD transfers to multiple targets. From there, you need to optimize your systems with the ability to:
1. check sum all data to each target directory (2-3 total)
2. color, sync, converge every shot
3. process AVID, ProRes, H264 (we do all 3 for every mag)
4. transfer to a shuttle drive

Some hints to begin designing your workflow (both on set and in post) is to:
1. 100% eliminate dependance on FireWire800.
2. Rockets are standard.
3. Look at different transfer potentials.
4. Multiple Computer Terminals.
m

So, I guess this won't be enough when I get my Epic?

17" MacBook Pro.
-2.8GHz Intel Core i7.
-8GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM
-500 GB Serial ATA Drive @ 7200 rpm.
-Replace my optical drive with the OCW Data Doubler + Mercury 500GB SSD.
-Mobile Rocket HBA Kit
-New 1.8" SSD module, media and station from RED.
-Magic wand

Thoughts?:redface:

 

[Leo Sardello]

I just wanted to chime in with my thanks to everyone who’s posting in this thread and on this forum about their real world experiences. The insights you pass on to us are invaluable and it is very kind of you to do so while you are hard at work in production. The free flow of ideas, experience, and knowledge keep the creative community alive. Thank you.