AMA offline just after linking volume

[a_lara]

Hello.
This is probably a newbie question but I have not been able to find a document to fully understand RED workflow in Avid. So if you can point me to one I would be very grateful. I have watched some video tutorials and read some threads but I crave for something which digs deeper.

I have started a new project. I just received the first dailies. 150GB which I copied into my own drive. Next I tried to use the "link ama volume", and in a few seconds I had a bin full of clips with metadata, but everyone were offline (video and audio). I also tried to link individual ama files with same result.
Then I tried to import a single R3d file, but the avid said no. Next I tried to import the quicktime files (I suppose they are reference files because they were only about 12k). But, although I could import the file, afterwards the video was full black, only could hear the audio.
I am probably doing something very wrong, but I have no idea about what it may be. Perhaps when I solve this basic questions I could progress on with the next problems (for example where can I select the debayer for the quality of the transcoding?) So perhaps I really need a place to learn the process without bothering you with my pleas.
Thank you very much.

 

[MichaelP]

What version are you running? Were the R3D files copied with their entire folder structure?

Michael

 

[a_lara]

I just did a fresh install of Mac Os X 10.6.5 and Media Composer 5.0.3.7r
The R3D were copied as they gave them to me (I mean I grabbed the folder that enclosed every other and copied it to the first level of my disc without renaming anything). And the Avid did not seem to have a problem with that, because it only took a few seconds to present everything in a bin.

 

[a_lara]

I did another test with the original disc that they gave me from the set and the results were identical (They may have altered the folder structure on set, but I doubt it. I will ask)
I forgot to say I run the media Composer on a Mac Pro dual dual core 3GhZ. My media drive is an e-sata raid. But I tried on different ones (usb and firewire) with same results.
The exact error message the avid tells me when trying to import individual files is:
The file format of "file name here.R3D" is not supported for import

 

[Adam Eden]

You need to go into your settings and turn on LINK TO AMA VOLUMES otherwise AMA wont work.

 

[a_lara]

You need to go into your settings and turn on LINK TO AMA VOLUMES otherwise AMA wont work.

Thank you for your quick answers.
Adam, I have checked that I already had the "enable AMA Volume Management" ON (the one in "volume mounting" tab in AMA settings). Are you referring to that?

On the other hand, I have discovered why I could not import individual quicktime files: I had not downloaded Red codec. Now I can play them in quicktime application and import them in avid (with much longer time to complete the import).

 

[Adam Eden]

I suggest that you use AMA volume management as that directly links the files to your timeline. Use 1/2 res (Yellow/green) otherwise it is too hard to edit.

 

[a_lara]

I am sorry Adam, but I do not know how to do it. When I link the AMA volume every clip is already offline. I even tried to relink, even though it seemed useless, as they were never online, but no clips were relinked.

Perhaps you are pointing me to something I do not get. Or perhaps I should try a different approach. I do not need editing with AMA (though I would like to know what is wrong). My plan was to use it only to transcode to DNxHD 36, and edit with that.

 

[MichaelP]

Clear all mounted AMA volumes (from the file menu) and try again. I'm not in front of my system right now, so I can't tell the actual menu name.

Michael

 

[Adam Eden]

You can convert all of the RED files with AVID Metafuze that comes with your software This works great for DNx36

 

[MichaelP]

Or REDCINE X...

 

[a_lara]

Thank you for your suggestions. I am neither in front of the avid, but I will try to unmount and mount again to see if that works.
On the other hand, I know there is not a mac version of metafuze. Is there one of RedCine X?
Will I get the same metadata that I would get with a transcode?

 

[a_lara]

I am already downloading REDCINE X for Mac. Is there anything I should be aware of? I am worried about Metadata.
Thank you for pointing me to that path. I will post tomorrow if I am still lost.
ALara

 

[MichaelP]

REDCINE X currently offers the most metadata directly out of the R3D's in a native MXF wrapped DNxHD resolution of your choice. If not using AMA, REDCINE X is my app of choice for dailies prep. Watch this video for tips on REDCINE X and importing. Towards the middle of the seminar.

http://tinyurl.com/29ue8mm



Michael

 

[a_lara]

The problem is solved. hbrock (an avid moderator) suggested to check for any non-alphanumeric characters like "/ ; : \ | { } , etc." in the folder structure. And that was it. The name contained the "/", and just after I changed it, and start again the linking ama volume process, everything went smooth.

Thank you very much for your help. I have learned much. The link to the video seminar is an excellent source.

Now my doubt is weather to continue this way or CINERED X. Because I find interesting being able to transcode and editing at the same time. The problem is that I think I read another thread where Michael said it is not possible to mix the two ways. That, once you choose a workflow path (transcode from within AMA or transcode from Cinered x), you must be consistent. Is that still true?

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

The problem is solved. hbrock (an avid moderator) suggested to check for any non-alphanumeric characters like "/ ; : \ | { } , etc." in the folder structure. And that was it. The name contained the "/", and just after I changed it, and start again the linking ama volume process, everything went smooth.

Thank you very much for your help. I have learned much. The link to the video seminar is an excellent source.

Now my doubt is weather to continue this way or CINERED X. Because I find interesting being able to transcode and editing at the same time. The problem is that I think I read another thread where Michael said it is not possible to mix the two ways. That, once you choose a workflow path, you must be consistent. Is that still true?

best way is to transcode to mxf dnxhd 36 for offline, sync in avid, edit, then
online in davince resolve or somewhere else

btw. avid rocks with datamanagement.
there is a red edl plug in for MC you should get.

disclaimer: i never really tried to conform in redcine x or clipfnder.
always straight to a finishing software.

working directly with the red files inside avid works great for commercials.
musicvideos is doable too
but i wouldnt edit a short with ama.


@michael
there was a way to link back the dnxhd files to the r3d files in avid, right?

and are there still plans to support a rocket accelerated playback inside MC?
wouldnt this be some kind of workaround for the running out of memory-problem? (its not a problem, its just the way it is with 32 bit apps)

avid is great imho for different reasons.

when you compare it to fcp you dont need sync n link (500 usd) and automatic duck pro export (500 usd)

just send the audio to protools.

so pricewise fcp becomes 2000 usd to be workable with ease.
mc is 2000 too.

you dont have something like color with it, but resolve is a much better option anyway imho.

 

[a_lara]

I am sorry to come here again but I am still plagued with new problems.

Now that I was able to link ama volume (and even to play in yellow), I started the transcoding process. Everything went ok until at one clip, it stopped with the error message:

• Exception: AMAProducerTask::Execute AMA Plug-In Unable to Provide Sample

In a most of the cases, I was able to transcode if I repeat the process a few times. Other clips went perfect from the very first time, and other never achieved success. When I get the error I can not even play the clip in the composer or else I received the same error. After some time, the errors seem to accumulate, up to the point I can not play any clip at all. Then I have to reinitiate and this seem to solve it for a while.

As I am getting out of time, I also tried transcoding in CINERED. At first everything went ok, but at one clip (not the same one) it unexpectedly quit. And then I get many errors which said unable to decode, corrupt frame.

Any ideas?

 

[MichaelP]

Sounds like two possible issues;

1. Running out of memory when transcoding via AMA. Reduce the number of clips in a batch or try the problem one as a one-off transcode
2. If it fails in MC and it fails in REDCINE, there's a chance that there is a corrupt frame which is a whole different issue that needs to be addressed outside of Media Composer.

Michael

 

[a_lara]

1. I am just doing only a few or even individual files at a time, but still with problems.
2. If there are corrupt frames, should not the errors happen always at the same point?

On the other hand, is it possible to combine the two methods (transcoding in AMA and CINERED X) in the same project? I would prefer being consistent with one, but as it is so time consuming, I am looking for alternatives.

Thanks

 

[MichaelP]

You will want to stick with one process. If you know you will be transcoding right off the bat, then I would go with REDCINE X as it gives you access to all the parameters as well as latest color science for Redcolor 2, etc. Are you seeing the same issues with REDCINE X with clips that won't transcode?

Michael