Alpha Build 16...

[albert rudnicki]

Is build 16 going to be compatible with 15 in terms of data processing,
or it's a completely different beast.
My main concern is mixing the footage from one to another.
I am going for a feature film in Macedonia next week, and we'll have tones of low light situations, it would be great to have it in the next couple of weeks.
Thanks
Albert

 

[Thom Steinhoff]

what is an NDA?

NDA stands for "Now Disclose All"... So, please... Start posting, Mr. Alpha!

 

[Matthew Chuang]

fingers crossed

 

[Sudhir Chaudhary]

Did I hear someone scream " eureka eureka"

 

[cinemano]

news of epic was kind of a heartbreaker for me.. took me years to afford the red. Build 16 would have to pretty amazing to heal my wounds But its noones fault, im just unlucky that way. When i bought the VX3 3ccd sony, the MiniDV version came out weeks later. When i bought my Mac, the new processor came out month later, when i bought my peugeot 205, the 206 came out months later, so its prob my fault the epic came out when it did, cos i received the red 3 weeks before was announced buaaahh never ending storyyy ladadaaa ladadaaa ladadaaaa

 

[Brandon Fraley]

news of epic was kind of a heartbreaker for me.. took me years to afford the red. Build 16 would have to pretty amazing to heal my wounds

im not sure i understand the logic behind this statement. Epic is a much more expensive camera, beside the fact that you can trade in a RED ONE for full value. How were you wounded?

 

[Clint Johnson]

news of epic was kind of a heartbreaker for me.. took me years to afford the red. Build 16 would have to pretty amazing to heal my wounds But its noones fault, im just unlucky that way. When i bought the VX3 3ccd sony, the MiniDV version came out weeks later. When i bought my Mac, the new processor came out month later, when i bought my peugeot 205, the 206 came out months later, so its prob my fault the epic came out when it did, cos i received the red 3 weeks before was announced buaaahh never ending storyyy ladadaaa ladadaaa ladadaaaa

I never did understand the "please stop making advances now that I bought mine" philosophy. The VX3's pictures didn't suddenly deteriorate, the Mac didn't slow down any and the Peugeot 205 didn't all of the sudden become less goofy looking. Just be glad that the advances kept coming so that now you can buy a Red One, a RedBOXX and a Dodge Challenger!

Well, actually all I could afford right now was the Red... but I still want everyone to keep making advances so that I can get something even better when I can afford a new computer and vehicle. There just isn't a lot of greed or envy in me so I don't resent other folks getting something better than me.

Bless the Flying Spaghetti Monster but I love capitalism!

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

news of epic was kind of a heartbreaker for me.. took me years to afford the red. Build 16 would have to pretty amazing to heal my wounds But its noones fault, im just unlucky that way. When i bought the VX3 3ccd sony, the MiniDV version came out weeks later. When i bought my Mac, the new processor came out month later, when i bought my peugeot 205, the 206 came out months later, so its prob my fault the epic came out when it did, cos i received the red 3 weeks before was announced buaaahh never ending storyyy ladadaaa ladadaaa ladadaaaa

You wouldn't be able to buy Red in the first place if that never ending story never existed.

 

[Brandon Fraley]

I never did understand the "please stop making advances now that I bought mine" philosophy. The VX3's pictures didn't suddenly deteriorate, the Mac didn't slow down any and the Peugeot 205 didn't all of the sudden become less goofy looking. Just be glad that the advances kept coming so that now you can buy a Red One, a RedBOXX and a Dodge Challenger!

Well, actually all I could afford right now was the Red... but I still want everyone to keep making advances so that I can get something even better when I can afford a new computer and vehicle. There just isn't a lot of greed or envy in me so I don't resent other folks getting something better than me.

Bless the Flying Spaghetti Monster but I love capitalism!

You wouldn't be able to buy Red in the first place if that never ending story never existed.

not to mention the argument isnt even applicable. in all of those examples the product was essentially replaced by a new model, assumed to be at a similar price. EPIC cost twice as much, and you can trade in your RED ONE for full value. I dont understand what the complaint is.

I suppose the argument might be that with the introduction of the EPIC, the RED ONE isnt the biggest baddest camera anymore. Well in that case you could have bought a Dalsa (or rent. do they sell?) which i dont think any one is arguing produces a higher quality image. It's also way the fuck more expensive. Kinda like (but not really) how the EPIC is more expensive than the RED ONE.

If you wanted a RED ONE, then great! You succeeded! If you want an EPIC, SWEET! you're in luck! Or maybe Scarlet sounds more your style?

(i don't mean to start a dalsa/red flame war)

 

[number6]

news of epic was kind of a heartbreaker for me.. took me years to afford the red. Build 16 would have to pretty amazing to heal my wounds But its noones fault, im just unlucky that way. When i bought the VX3 3ccd sony, the MiniDV version came out weeks later. When i bought my Mac, the new processor came out month later, when i bought my peugeot 205, the 206 came out months later, so its prob my fault the epic came out when it did, cos i received the red 3 weeks before was announced buaaahh never ending storyyy ladadaaa ladadaaa ladadaaaa

Not to mention you have tongue-in-cheek disease... :tongue:

 

[Corrado Silveri]

All the best

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione...

 

[cinemano]

hihihi i love the way people are braver online than face to face.. love the internet

 

[Teague Kennedy]

Let's all beat up on Cinemano!

Really, guys. Come on. Sure there is a trade up, but if you don't have the money for the trade up, you have a cam that will not be flagship -- and will probably have features held out in order to get people to trade up, just like in every other company. Sure Jim had to do it for progress, but Cinemano is not all wrong.

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

so its prob my fault the epic came out when it did, cos i received the red 3 weeks before was announced buaaahh never ending storyyy ladadaaa ladadaaa ladadaaaa

I know exactly how you feel...I'm still responsible for the Denver Broncos' loss to the Jacksonville Jaguars in the 1996 AFC Championship game. I should not have gone to the bathroom, while the Jags kicked the winning field goal, it would have made all the difference. I ruined it for everybody. It still hurts....

 

[Brian Langeman]

hihihi i love the way people are braver online than face to face.. love the internet

True, the internet can make people "braver", especially with anonymity. But if we were face to face, I'd tell you straight up the exact same thing.

RED One is still the same camera that you've been saving up for. It's actually getting better than what you were saving up for when build 16 comes out. RED is not stopping their support of it, and you can even trade it in for FULL VALUE when the Epic ships. When has that ever been done before by ANY company???

Guess what. Films have been DI'd over the past decade with 2K. And you're getting 4K if you can handle it. So I think you're good to go for a while actually. If you need 15 shots in your feature done at 1000 fps, than rent a Phantom for a couple days. You can also upgrade the sensor on your RED One when the Epic comes out.

 

[Michael Hastings]

So it was you.

So it was you.

I know exactly how you feel...I'm still responsible for the Denver Broncos' loss to the Jacksonville Jaguars in the 1996 AFC Championship game. I should not have gone to the bathroom, while the Jags kicked the winning field goal, it would have made all the difference. I ruined it for everybody. It still hurts....

So it was you!

 

[Paris Remillard]

I completely understand Cinemanos feelings. I too thought (and I'd be perfectly happy to accept that I misinterpreted something) that the original concept of the Red One was that when newer,better, higher resolution sensors and better boards, etc... became available, the camera would be upgradeable to the current peak specs. That's what the rendering obsolescence obsolete phrase was to many people. While some of that upgradability is still possible and has been announced, it seems (I stress seems since none of us know exactly what is going to happen with any of the upgrades or Epic yet because it's still future speculation, so... ) to have been stunted somewhat by the creation of a higher tier, higher priced camera. I don't think that anyone is saying that progress or development should be stopped or slowed to make people feel better about their investment. Or that the Red One isn't a great camera anymore because of this. It's just that some people thought, based on statements from Red, that the newest and best would be incorporated ( at Red One price points) into the Red One and that concept is what made a lot of people have the faith to put down a deposit on a camera that didn't even exist yet. Now the newest and best goes into the Epic, while the Red One will get the newest and second best, in that it seems from a business standpoint that it has to remain one step below the Epic. That's all. It is what it is. And just to be clear, I'm not trying to start or further any arguments here. Just trying to calmly explain why I think some people feel the way they do and felt the way they did around NAB. Anyway, I'll stop typing now because this is waaayy off topic from Alpha build 16.

 

[Vladimir Eugene]

news of epic was kind of a heartbreaker for me.. took me years to afford the red. Build 16 would have to pretty amazing to heal my wounds But its noones fault, im just unlucky that way. When i bought the VX3 3ccd sony, the MiniDV version came out weeks later. When i bought my Mac, the new processor came out month later, when i bought my peugeot 205, the 206 came out months later, so its prob my fault the epic came out when it did, cos i received the red 3 weeks before was announced buaaahh never ending storyyy ladadaaa ladadaaa ladadaaaa

I have to say I completely understand where you are coming from. When I walked into the RED booth at Nab I felt like the middle child who was knocked down by my new big brother, and kicked by my very small brother that is almost as strong as I am.

Keep in mind, these feelings are not rational. They have nothing to do with the fact that I have already received a top of the line Digital Cinema Camera that completely exceeded any expectation I had when I ordered it at NAB 06. Nor the customer service that I must admit I felt was ridiculously generous. "Oh, they are making new cameras with new PL mounts, I wish I had waited a little longer so I would have gotten the improved one." Then the announcement comes- just deliver your old camera and we'll upgrade it for free- shipping included.

The feeling of disappointment knowing that you don't indeed have the latest and greatest thing in the planet, that for 3 thousand you get awfully close to lots of those fantastic features.

But, then sound rational thinking kicks back in. Scarlet will only help the Red brands inroads into the industry. The smaller chip will make some shooting instances that need a larger depth of field easier to realize. Epic will probably be one of the first choices of studio pictures. The Red will benefit tremendously from all of this and all the Redusers. I plan on having all three cameras.

Vladimir Eugene

 

[Steve Sherrick]

I completely understand Cinemanos feelings. I too thought that the original concept of the Red One was that when newer,better, higher resolution sensors and better boards, etc... became available, the camera would be upgradeable to the current peak specs. That's what the rendering obsolescence obsolete phrase was to many people. While some of that upgradability is still possible and has been announced, it seems (I stress seems since none of us know exactly what is going to happen with any of the upgrades or Epic yet because it's still future speculation, so... ) to have been stunted somewhat by the creation of a higher tier, higher priced camera. I don't think that anyone is saying that progress or development should be stopped or slowed to make people feel better about their investment. Or that the Red One isn't a great camera anymore because of this. It's just that some people thought, based on statements from Red, that the newest and best would be incorporated ( at Red One price points) into the Red One. Now the newest and best goes into the Epic, while the Red One will get the newest and second best, in that it seems from a business standpoint that it has to remain one step below the Epic. That's all. Anyway, I'll stop typing now because this is waaayy off topic from Alpha build 16.

That's not what I understood at all from the beginning. The RED team ad mentioned that the RED ONE would have an upgrade path via chip upgrade. They never stated that it would incorporate all of the features of a new camera. RED ONE owners will have a couple of options.

1. Upgrade RED ONE with new Mysterium X chip that will provide some of the upgraded features of the Epic, including increased dynamic range. It will still be a 4K camera. This upgrade will not be super cheap, but as of yet there is no price set. Jim has indicated that current camera owners will have first dibs on these new chips when they are available.

2. Turn in your RED ONE for full value ($17,500) towards a new Epic. Cost of new Epic now becomes $22,000ish. So if you need 5K and some of the additional features that won't be available by just upgrading your RED ONE you make a decision on how much those features are worth to you.

So RED ONE is not obsolete. It is getting better with build 16 and it will get even better with the Mysterium X chip upgrade. As far as I'm concerned they are keeping their promise of making it upgradeable.