Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

All the Epic/Dragon Vs. Alexa/Sony threads are belong to us...

Dragon is a great camera.

I totally get Johns perspective on the testing bit...

One of my reasons for posting images and not only charts, really.

Even if some do not get the implications of "tests", most people can recognize a tricky image...

It's not about numbers in the end... :)
Shut up and shoot :)

1658421_10152199683245126_1985114745_o.jpg
 
Last edited:
geoffboyle said:
I'm glad to be back here, thanks Jared.
Maybe we can now talk about this directly and calmly.

The tests were conducted with the cameras that were currently available, there were "experts" in each camera present where possible, nobody from KineRAW or SinaCAM.

The tests were carried out in the University of the West of England and senior staff from there were present to make sure that everything was fair.

My methodology on DR is very simple, it's not as pedantic as some, I want to know what usable DR there is, not what the last point a pixel is visible through the noise!

To check what I would describe as shooting DR we overexpose a grey scale at half stop intervals until the difference between the brightest 2 chips disappears, the half stop before that is the limit. I don't use highly specialised kit to measure this, I use my eyes on a regular monitor from a regular viewing distance. The object after all is to see what the shooting DR is in normal conditions.

We then repeat this with exposures reducing, again, the point where I can't see the difference between the 2 darkest chips is a half stop beyond the DR limit.

If the camera is very noisy at this point I will comment, as I will also comment if it is very quiet. You may recall that I did mention this in regard to the Dragon.

Now can we all please be civilised about this.

Oh and I will be contacting Jared in July 2015 asking him to continue sponsorship of CML!!
Click to expand...

Welcome back, Geoff! Looking forward to hearing what you have to say. About Dragon and beyond.

best.
 
geoffboyle said:
I'm glad to be back here, thanks Jared.
Maybe we can now talk about this directly and calmly.

The tests were conducted with the cameras that were currently available, there were "experts" in each camera present where possible, nobody from KineRAW or SinaCAM.

The tests were carried out in the University of the West of England and senior staff from there were present to make sure that everything was fair.

My methodology on DR is very simple, it's not as pedantic as some, I want to know what usable DR there is, not what the last point a pixel is visible through the noise!

To check what I would describe as shooting DR we overexpose a grey scale at half stop intervals until the difference between the brightest 2 chips disappears, the half stop before that is the limit. I don't use highly specialised kit to measure this, I use my eyes on a regular monitor from a regular viewing distance. The object after all is to see what the shooting DR is in normal conditions.

We then repeat this with exposures reducing, again, the point where I can't see the difference between the 2 darkest chips is a half stop beyond the DR limit.

If the camera is very noisy at this point I will comment, as I will also comment if it is very quiet. You may recall that I did mention this in regard to the Dragon.

Now can we all please be civilised about this.

Oh and I will be contacting Jared in July 2015 asking him to continue sponsorship of CML!!
Click to expand...

Hi Geoff!

Glad to see you here.

It was good to meet and work with you.

G
 
<3 happiness

looking forward to the full test...
and really looking forward to the new brew (:
 
geoffboyle said:
I'm glad to be back here, thanks Jared.
Maybe we can now talk about this directly and calmly.

The tests were conducted with the cameras that were currently available, there were "experts" in each camera present where possible, nobody from KineRAW or SinaCAM.

The tests were carried out in the University of the West of England and senior staff from there were present to make sure that everything was fair.

My methodology on DR is very simple, it's not as pedantic as some, I want to know what usable DR there is, not what the last point a pixel is visible through the noise!

To check what I would describe as shooting DR we overexpose a grey scale at half stop intervals until the difference between the brightest 2 chips disappears, the half stop before that is the limit. I don't use highly specialised kit to measure this, I use my eyes on a regular monitor from a regular viewing distance. The object after all is to see what the shooting DR is in normal conditions.

We then repeat this with exposures reducing, again, the point where I can't see the difference between the 2 darkest chips is a half stop beyond the DR limit.

If the camera is very noisy at this point I will comment, as I will also comment if it is very quiet. You may recall that I did mention this in regard to the Dragon.

Now can we all please be civilised about this.

Oh and I will be contacting Jared in July 2015 asking him to continue sponsorship of CML!!
Click to expand...


welcome back Geoff ..
Finally we can share all the right boat, this is a good day for the community of professionals.
It would be interesting that you can do some testing with the new OLPF / calibration and tell us what you think.
 
geoffboyle said:
And to meet and work with you :-)

I hope we managed to do as neutral a job as possible.

Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...

As far as I can tell, everything was conducted in a controlled manner and we agreed on all setups shot.

Any operator fuck-ups on the Dragon are fully due to my mistakes and not due to any bad will. (I cannot really see that I did any...)
The same goes for any other camera shot.

Geoff conducted the main tests, I a couple, others a couple.
We agreed on methodology before shooting.

Geoff did not operate, but we discussed and agreed what we tested for and how to test it before shooting.

Most cameras were operated either by a brand rep, or with someone with experience with that camera. The only exception being KineRAW, as that camera was hot out of the oven.
 
Last edited:
Overreacting, the first thing I always try to avoid on the net disscusions ...
 
Nice to see this happening right here in this thread!

Welcome back.

Battistella
 
Evin Grant said:
Lets see what the Dragon has going for it shall we...

1/2 the price of an Alexa √
More DR than the Alexa √
4x the resolution of the Alexa √
1/3 the size of an Alexa √
faster frame rates than the Alexa √
Compressed RAW onboard √
Equivalent or superior color fidelity to Alexa √
Click to expand...


I tick boxes, looks like you do too.

Hence why Im in RED world.
There is no way in hell I was going to pay 80k plus on going costs plus plus plus... for an over sized PRO RES HD video camera. Shesh !
 
Welcome back, Geoff!

And, sorry that a lot of negativity has taken place here or anywhere regarding
these camera technology issues.
 
welcome back Geoff.
could you please share your comments about test results (dr, color, highlights, noise etc). i really like to hear your comments especially for dragon and alexa?
 
Ergin Ozturk said:
welcome back Geoff.
could you please share your comments about test results (dr, color, highlights, noise etc). i really like to hear your comments especially for dragon and alexa?
Click to expand...

I guess I would suggest you went over and had a look at the files over at CML, download RAWs and check out things a bit on your own.

I really will not poke things into risky waters again.

Geoff is frank and polite, but people here and over at CML have been pretty touchy for a while. Let us have some quiet waters for a while :)

(NOT implying that Geoffs comments would be bad or offending, but I have seen a number of times that things are misinterpreted, and that quickly leads to a bit of unwanted noise and unpoliteness)

I am sure Geoff will comment things as he is done.

As will I.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top