All quiet on the (RED)western front ...

[Jeff McCoy]

Will the new lens mount be able to power the Fujinon Cabrio?

 

[Elsie N]

Weapon Aluminum with no Prores?

Appropriately priced... I'd buy that.

 

[Brian Merlen]

Hmm i wonder if I should switch to forged?

 

[Elsie N]

Hmm i wonder if I should switch to forged?

Probably gets you moved up in the 8k line... which would put you ahead of me.

So, don't do it!

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

We added an additional HD-SDI out to the rear Weapon REDVOLT Pro expander module from a ton of feedback.

Hey Jarred, This is awesome news.
will we have the ability to send redcolor out of one port, and a redlog image out of the other?

also, on weapon.. will it be able to do a flip image in camera?
x and y axis

 

[Kemalettin Sert]

Hey Jarred, This is awesome news.
will we have the ability to send redcolor out of one port, and a redlog image out of the other?

also, on weapon.. will it be able to do a flip image in camera?
x and y axis

i remember these were doable on weapon..i wish base extender have 2 SDI outputs too.

 

[Matthew J]

As you know we also snuck in 4K ProRes to the Forged / Carbon.

So no UHD ProRes on the Mag???

 

[Jake Wilganowski]

Red stated a while back the magnesium weapon won't have as powerful internals. So no 4k prores most likely I'm thinking

 

[Matthew J]

Red stated a while back the magnesium weapon won't have as powerful internals. So no 4k prores most likely I'm thinking

Which in that case makes the Mag Weapon not even really a "meh" upgrade from Epic Dragon.Honestly, what do you really get for $20k? 1/2 stop in the low end, 2k ProRes, 3D LUTS, lower compression at higher frame rates, and WiFi control. Considering I will almost never use the 3D LUTS, and the CF is less than .10 lbs lighter, it would be $15,000 extra to be able to record 4k ProRes over 2k ProRes and that's it for the extra dough. I am really not trying to complain, but this upgrade is starting to look really unattractive when I look at what the specs are when compared to the Epic Dragon I have right now. Am I missing something?

 

[Jake Wilganowski]

No that sounds about right

 

[Jarred Land]

So it is compatible with the Epic body? (As it's a 6k Dragon) and also with the Scarlet as it has the same lens mount?
There also maybe a confusion between what a Dragon is and what an Epic is?
Can you confirm.

Thanks


Pat

The 8K Dragon sensor needs a different PL mount as the sensor is much bigger. So the 6K Weapon PL mount seen here will work on the 5K/6K Epics and Scarlets.

 

[Patrick Kendall]

Red stated a while back the magnesium weapon won't have as powerful internals. So no 4k prores most likely I'm thinking

So because of the internals boards being less powerful, MGs can't have 4K Prores too. I prefer to shoot everything in the gorgeous r3D format, but I just see a client asking me, when I tell them I can't record UHD prores, "How is it that a $2k Atomos 4K recorder, is more advanced?"

 

[Elsie N]

The 8K Dragon sensor needs a different PL mount as the sensor is much bigger. So the 6K Weapon PL mount seen here will work on the 5K/6K Epics and Scarlets.

Will the 8k PL mount ship with the 6k Carbon fiber, or will we send in the PL mount our camera ships with to be upgraded (presumably at no additional cost?) when we send in our cameras for the 8k upgrade?

 

[Gunleik Groven]

So because of the internals boards being less powerful, MGs can't have 4K Prores too. I prefer to shoot everything in the gorgeous r3D format, but I just see a client asking me, when I tell them I can't record UHD prores, "How is it that a $2k Atomos 4K recorder, is more advanced?"

Because it only records a ready-made RGB signal into prores 422, instead of doing the RAW recording and debayering simultaniously in real-time perhaps.

If there was a mode to ONLY record prores 422 UHD, it could be doable.

 

[Nick Morrison]

So because of the internals boards being less powerful, MGs can't have 4K Prores too. I prefer to shoot everything in the gorgeous r3D format, but I just see a client asking me, when I tell them I can't record UHD prores, "How is it that a $2k Atomos 4K recorder, is more advanced?"

The difference is...the Atomos is only recording whats being fed out BNC.

The Weapon internal Prores can also record SLOWMO (I believe Carbon can do 2K HD 120fps).

So you are LITERALLY recording R3D/Prores in perfect lockstep....whereas an external recorder can generally only record a "live" 23.98 feed (or whatever your timebase is).

 

[Patrick Kendall]

If there was a mode to ONLY record prores 422 UHD, it could be doable.

yes please! I would love that.

The difference is...the Atomos is only recording whats being fed out BNC.

The Weapon internal Prores can also record SLOWMO (I believe Carbon can do 2K HD 120fps).

So you are LITERALLY recording R3D/Prores in perfect lockstep....whereas an external recorder can generally only record a "live" 23.98 feed (or whatever your timebase is).

Thanks Nick. I knew there was a perfectly rational explaination. I guess my next question is, will the sdi or hdmi output on the MG weapon be outputting in 4K???? It just irks me to see consumer cameras coming on the market being able record in some bastarized form of 4K and clients not understanding/caring what the technical differences are. A year or two from now when the new weapon line is in full swing, I think most productions will be asking for digital delivery in UHD. 1080p will not be an acceptable master (except for tape). I would love the ability to switch off R3D on my shiny new Mg Weapon and begrudingly record the occasional job in UHD for fussy clients.

Atomos does record in DNxHR though, and I do need a good excuse to buy a 2nd monitor... hmmm

-Patrick

 

[Nick Morrison]

Thanks Nick. I knew there was perfectly rational explaination. I guess my next question is, will the sdi or hdmi output on the MG weapon be outputting in 4K???? It just irks me to see consumer cameras coming on the market being able record in some bastarized form of 4K and clients not understanding/caring what the technical differences are. A year or two from now when the new weapon line is in full swing, I think most productions will be asking for digital delivery in UHD. 1080p will not be an acceptable master (except for tape). I would love the ability to switch off R3D on my shiny new Mg Weapon and begrudingly record the occasional job in UHD for fussy clients.

Atomos does record in DNxHR though, and I do need a good excuse to buy 2nd monitor... hmmm

-Patrick

Hey Patrick, by all accounts...it looks like it will be possible to turn "off" recording in R3D...so in theory that would probably give the Magnesium enough "juice" to record UHD Prores as well.

I agree...the UHD Prores is a massive selling point for Weapon. Especially when you consider 6K material is DOWNSCALING to 4K Prores...vs Alexa which UPCONVERTS from 3.2K.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

As to "theory" i have no idea. Was just an idea of how to get rid of a bit of overhead in the compressing of the R3D's and bandwith to the media. But there might well be dedicated chips doing the compression, and those cycles might well not be "free" to take on the task of debayering and encoding prores at UHD for all I know.

 

[Patrick Grossien]

The 8K Dragon sensor needs a different PL mount as the sensor is much bigger. So the 6K Weapon PL mount seen here will work on the 5K/6K Epics and Scarlets.

Wouldn't it be easier to just make all of the new PL mounts work with the new 8K sensor size?
Just as the existing EF, leica and nikon mounts should probably work with 8K FF (utilising a 36 or 35.8mm crop), or are these mounts restricted to the 6K / 30.7mm sensor size?

I assume you can also mount S35 PL lenses on that 8K PL mount or is it necessary to switch 8K FF and 6K S35 mounts if you use S35 PL glass?
One size fits all seems much more practical...!?

 

[ignition]

So much great information shared herein which really helps us (and a lot of ppl I hope). Many thanks to Jarred for rising above the waves and addressing some concerns, and of course to Phil who is doing a sterling job of wrangling all the information tidbits, clarifying so much and helping dispel confusion.

When the time is right, love some more clarification on the PL mount 6k/8k issue as I'm sure whatever limitations are around the new PL mount 6k>8k also extends to other mounts. Given the form factor/wafer size suspected this might be the case. In a single camera PL mount scenario it's totally not an issue, but in any mixed mount and mixed camera (Epic/Dragon/Weapon) inventory it becomes more challenging. If 8K compat mounts (PL or otherwise) are perfectly happy on 5k/6k cameras, then the sane (!!) thing to do would be migrate to 8K compat mounts across the board and run them across different RED bodies.

I've seen various concerns and even outright dismissals around the cost of Weapon versus the immediate benefits (1/2 stop, wifi, prores and shaving some weight all hold incremental value); some of this is even played out in CF/MG Weapon frustrations as if the only difference between the two is the material the outer shell is made out of. These cameras are a lot of wizardry beyond the shell and sensor and likely the wizardry is a little different internally between the two.

Personally think the MG/CF weapons should actually have more dileneation than just the body material type to help clarify this (to users, to the market, etc.) Maybe Weapon and Lethal Weapon? I love those movies and yeah I still love Mel despite the whole media circus.

The sensor>body>sensor>body philosophy is critical to any company trying to help migrate a user base on a journey of technological leapfrogging, and I personally believe the Dragon sensor is giving pretty close to all she's got and the real value of this next leg is in setting things up for the next leapfrog. So the cost and rationale totally makes sense to us, but might not make immediate sense to others.

Excited to remain on this journey with a company that continues to disrupt the digital motion picture acquisition market. Tx again for helping to clarify as much as you can right now.