All Professionals...

[Will Keir]

I haven't even thought about asking this until skimming through your post.

Are there any other camera companies offering an upgradeable brain?

Always difficult to predict the future... Most technological watchdogs and "experts" get it wrong more than they get it right. But those at the forefront of an evolutionary wave -- RED, Apple, etc.. are in that unique position where they can influence or even mold that future somewhat.

My own and not so humble prediction of what comes next is something that is going to prove very difficult, even impossible, for most camera and video hardware companies. We are on the cusp of a rapid development phase with imaging technology, something that will move at a whirlwind pace compared to even the progress over the past few years. Something not unlike the massive ramp-up in MHz and CPU processing power we witnessed in the '90s where Moore's Law was at one point denounced by Intel and kicked to the curb as they were not doubling anything every 18 months, but rather quadrupling CPU speed and computational power at 9 month intervals through the Pentium-II and Pentium-III vs. AMD Athlon "arms race". Dragon is a prelude to this development and I think over the next few years, we are going to see a massive push in resolution, sensitivity, frame rates, etc... Those who are buying into Programs where they need to purchase a new camera every 6 to 10 months, just to try and stay current are in for a world of hurt. RED is taking this with a modular, upgradeable approach, where we can pace ourselves and continue along with the same system as painlessly as possible.

6K acquisition is coming, I'm sure 8K isn't far behind, then 12K, etc.. What about exhibition? We're seeing the signs of that too. Look at RED's upcoming laser projector. If not for their raster-generation system (whether it's a DMD or LCOS or something else), which seems to hold the resolution limit at 4K (for now), the ability is already there to show generate two simultaneous 4K images worth of pixels at 60Hz. In other words, the system can probably be upgraded by replacing the raster generation with an 8K DMD or whatever and we can suddenly do 8K from the same projector. No reason that can't be continued and pushed further that that too.

Look at our mobile devices and the ~300+ ppi displays out there now. The technology exists to cram HD on a postage-stamp-sized OLED display -- shown at CES and now available in the OLED BOMB EVF. What's to stop someone from applying that same tech to make a 30" 800 megapixel desktop monitor? Computers/ GPUs aren't powerful enough to drive such a thing. But that's only an issue for the moment.

Pixels, at least those identifiable by the human eye, will one day be a thing of the past.

 

[Will Keir]

Same here. My attitude is get one now and move forward (upgrade) with it and technology. Both personal skills and craft and technological advancements.

That hits the nail on the head, Andrae.
I used to wring my hands about upcoming tech... when the right time to buy was... how quickly would my investment leave me in the dustbin of camera history.
Now not only do I not worry as much, I look forward to it. The updates and upgrades can't come fast enough.

180 degree difference.
Less stress... more excitement... and more focus on the work itself.

It's a great time to be shooting.

 

[Antonio Ribeiro]

Always difficult to predict the future... Most technological watchdogs and "experts" get it wrong more than they get it right. But those at the forefront of an evolutionary wave -- RED, Apple, etc.. are in that unique position where they can influence or even mold that future somewhat.

My own and not so humble prediction of what comes next is something that is going to prove very difficult, even impossible, for most camera and video hardware companies. We are on the cusp of a rapid development phase with imaging technology, something that will move at a whirlwind pace compared to even the progress over the past few years. Something not unlike the massive ramp-up in MHz and CPU processing power we witnessed in the '90s where Moore's Law was at one point denounced by Intel and kicked to the curb as they were not doubling anything every 18 months, but rather quadrupling CPU speed and computational power at 9 month intervals through the Pentium-II and Pentium-III vs. AMD Athlon "arms race". Dragon is a prelude to this development and I think over the next few years, we are going to see a massive push in resolution, sensitivity, frame rates, etc... Those who are buying into Programs where they need to purchase a new camera every 6 to 10 months, just to try and stay current are in for a world of hurt. RED is taking this with a modular, upgradeable approach, where we can pace ourselves and continue along with the same system as painlessly as possible.

6K acquisition is coming, I'm sure 8K isn't far behind, then 12K, etc.. What about exhibition? We're seeing the signs of that too. Look at RED's upcoming laser projector. If not for their raster-generation system (whether it's a DMD or LCOS or something else), which seems to hold the resolution limit at 4K (for now), the ability is already there to show generate two simultaneous 4K images worth of pixels at 60Hz. In other words, the system can probably be upgraded by replacing the raster generation with an 8K DMD or whatever and we can suddenly do 8K from the same projector. No reason that can't be continued and pushed further that that too.

Look at our mobile devices and the ~300+ ppi displays out there now. The technology exists to cram HD on a postage-stamp-sized OLED display -- shown at CES and now available in the OLED BOMB EVF. What's to stop someone from applying that same tech to make a 30" 800 megapixel desktop monitor? Computers/ GPUs aren't powerful enough to drive such a thing. But that's only an issue for the moment.

Pixels, at least those identifiable by the human eye, will one day be a thing of the past.

And guess what, I was working on a film just last month for UCL Engineering in London about the new generation of microchips, and this will change everything again. As we all know copper has its limitations. The main issue being that copper, which is used to transmit electrical signals in chips, has natural limitations and cannot keep pace with the increase in processing speed of the silicon chip. Now these guys have found a way to fuse silicon with laser crystals which allow a single chip to have processing capabilities beyond anything else seen before, with amazing speed, the smallest of sizes and without the heat generated by copper. Photonics is the future for all of us.

 

[James Brundige]

And we believe that our customers should be our long-lasting friends... not our victims.

Jim

I really appreciated the Red party and Red booth this year. It is very clear there is a corporate culture of ... well....nice. Everyone was friendly, helpful, and approachable. Had great conversations with Jim, Ted, and many others. Thanks, Dan, for the Red Cine Tutorial.

 

[Esmaeil Neisi]

Yes you are the man Jan

 

[Brian F Kobylarz]

RED opened the doors to affordable high resolution image capture years before the industry status quo elite were prepared to let anyone go there.

Now everything has changed. Forever.

As image makers (still and motion), we now have tools at our disposal that we could only dream of scant years ago.
Professional, you bet. It's not a title - it's how you engage the craft - a mindset. Testing the limits, making the best use of the technology we have the privilege of working with today to produce results that are second to none. And this with the realization that our work will be critiqued well beyond the years of any format we have used before. As Jim pointed out, RAW will be around for a long time - the color chemistry sets continually being developed and refined will just keep making our work better (and expose our flaws if we aren't paying attention).

As far as the future - where it will go has so many possibilities. The "easy" thinking leads you to even more detail, more dynamic range.
How long before attention shifts to the capture of multiple light fields (perhaps at 8K) with full motion tracking within the environment?
Damn, that's going to be a b___ to light... but don't we all love challenges?

Everyone seems to be climbing on the 4K train now - great to see, but I prefer being with the leaders of the pack. Everyone else seems to be a couple of years behind - as they announce 4K, RED is talking 6K - never mind the baked in looks the other manufacturers want me to accept. No thanks.
The new announcements have only verified the decision making process as to the choice of equipment and workflow.

Speaking for many, thank you for bringing a new revolution to the industry.

 

[Carlos Florez]

I'm in and I'm here to stay. RED all the way.

 

[Carlos Florez]

Hi Jim,
Talking about the future. This is something I would like RED to implement in the cameras.
A live camera tracking that tracks the motion of the camera and create a 3d scene with the perfect matching camera information for VFX work. It is very time consuming to do this process in post production and very hard to nail it. for a perfectionist like me, I always think" "what if my Red Epic camera also record a camera tracking motion for after effects, nuke or any other compositing program as well as 3D programs like Maya, C4D, etc so is easier to recreate the same scene to add VFX characters, elements, etc. Even better, if even besides the camera tracking, it takes note of the depth of field to create a depth pass and lens blur information this would be huge for great compositing work!

really huge, so HUGE as being able to adjust focus on post. This is my other requirement as a loyal costumer I would like RED to listen and hopefully implement, The ability to adjust focus in post production. Just like now we can adjust the temperature and the ISO and many other things, it would be great to have the chance to adjust the focus in post. I know this is extremely difficult. But this is inevitably, the future.

All the best,
Carlos Florez

 

[Stefan Antonescu]

That hits the nail on the head, Andrae.
I used to wring my hands about upcoming tech... when the right time to buy was... how quickly would my investment leave me in the dustbin of camera history.
Now not only do I not worry as much, I look forward to it. The updates and upgrades can't come fast enough.

180 degree difference.
Less stress... more excitement... and more focus on the work itself.

It's a great time to be shooting.

+ 1

Very well put, Luis. I feel the same.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

It begs the question...what is next? It is an exciting time

Volume capture is where we're ultimately headed (http://www.fxguide.com/featured/Light_Stage_6/).

Probably won't look anything like that but in principle that's the future. Hauling around lights and cameras is going to look comical in 10-15 years.

In the short term we're going to move into computational photography more and more. Lytro is just one of many examples of a new way of thinking about image aquisition (e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H7yx31yslM).

With super high resolution 20k+ resolution you can shoot super wide with a fixed lens and digitally zoom the 20k plate up to zoom in. (e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vfvMWyWvrAQ) No breathing, no mechanics just a really nice razor sharp 8mm for most shots. If you're shooting a lightfield then you can pull focus in post too.

If you want the anamorphic look just code in an anamorphic aperture/kernel for the effect. Tada, anamorphic.

Real-time lens flare simulations are getting really good too in a couple siggraph papers this year. If you want the lens characteristics and flares of any lens you can dial it up on demand (https://vimeo.com/23687553).

Also shooting on a large format high resolution sensors will let you 'extract' multiple perspectives from one lightfield sensor. So instead of two cameras and beam splitters you shoot with a single camera and choose your inter-ocular distance in the edit.

 

[Jake Wilganowski]

Yeah this kinda bums me out. I wanna light it. Now HAL gets to.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Sorry... disagree. I guess I have for the past decade.

If you want your stuff to "be good enough" for now, you are right. But do you really want your prized footage to be important in the future? Imagine you have your best work on SD.

Jim

I have a couple of shelves full of underwater footage from some of the coolest places in the world. Shot on recam, Betacam, D3, digibeta, DV, Etc. - 720x486 - all tops in their day. :-( I was always frustrated that that was the best we could do without spendings tens of thousands on film (even with $60k cameras) yet the still guy could spend $3k on a Nikonos setup and $20 on film and equal the pros.

DSMC has finally given me that capability in a movie camera. At a price I can readily afford.

Many thanks, Jim

 

[Carl Weston]

Some day 1080P will truly be an unacceptable and obsolete format, it just isn't today.. But Soon Jim...Soon.

 

[ryanpostas]

Just about the time you have settled into your favorite 1080P camera and think all is well in the world... you look up and discover that 1080P is an obsolete format. Seemingly overnight (if you haven't really been paying attention). 4K (or greater) acquisition and 4K delivery are here. Up-rezzing 5 times is really not a good option.

Jim

I was really surprised by how much 4k bashing was going on at NAB this year - The amount of pessimism was absurd. Obviously people are entitled to their opinions but you just can't deny the truth about where RED/4k is and where they are taking us versus where the others are right now. In my opinion, the idea of RED/4k means so much more than strictly resolution, I think of Dynamic Range and the incredible opportunities RAW presents in shooting & post-production which is definitely were 1080p lacks tenfold. This is the type of forward thinking that makes RED stand out and only makes those against it look self centered and unaware. The people that were advocating 1080p kept blurting out the "It's all about the story, not the image" line, which I think is just plain ignorant. I could not get enough of the imagery in LOOM - no one even needed to speak a single line of dialog and I was mesmerized by the picture, where as on the other hand, I literally could barely sit through the other 4k films at NAB (the one even having been shot by one of my favorite DPs). I couldn't get past the fact that the images shown in 4k were just glorified video images shown at a higher resolution and this is truly were the Mysterium-X sensor out-shines the competition brilliantly.

I simply can not wait for the day that I can afford my first Epic package- fortunately for now, I have some very generous film makers around me in LA that have been extremely helpful in getting an Epic/Scarlet into my hands for recent projects and I am counting down the days to shoot my next project with them. It's an exciting time right now, and the future looks bright...RED

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

(to the Models)
Okay, as I explained to you girls, the reason why we don’t have any flashes is because I will not be taking pictures today, but actually filming your every move, at 120 frames per second, then I’ll extract the still images I want out of the video stream. So, don’t stop after each pose, just continuously move and give me new poses, you are now no longer just Models, you are Actresses!

Bingo! And they all seem to love this approach too. So far.

 

[Mark Britton]

I keep hearing people talk from people around me about how they are waiting for the next camera. How they like camera x, but they are going to wait until it has feature y. Once that's available, then, finally digital cinema cameras have arrived.

And how important workflow is, and how this whole 'RAW' thing just doesn't lead to efficient workflows. Then you dig a bit, and you find out they're on PowerPC Macs trying to limp along with old copies of FCP, and the real reason they're bashing on RAW is that they'd have to upgrade their technology and their knowledge.

Just last night, I was on the phone helping a producer work through technology (knowledge) issues on a program shot on 720p HDV tape. Thinking back, I personally haven't touched a HDV tape in...5 years? But they can't get their 'workflow' figured out, even though the production house decided to buy this camera new a year ago, because they needed 'proven technology' they could 'rely on'. Which, as far as I can tell is code words for "I already don't know what I'm doing, and they'll be on to me if we get something out of my comfort zone!"

Most of the pushback is coming from people that are terrified of what all this means. They know the 'future' has arrived. They're not ready for it. They haven't keep their skills up. Their knowledge up. We're in a period of rapid technology change. Old icons are falling. New ones are rising to take their places.

It's a sobering thought that we all need to take to heart. We all need to keep our eyes and minds open. Absorb what is around us, what is coming. Make the most of it. Or be left behind.

Those people that are waiting for cameras to have 'one more feature' are at serious risk of letting that knowledge, skill and experience gap open into a chasm they may never bridge.

 

[Ketch Rossi]

...allowing both indie features and giant studio tent poles to be photographed and shown on giant IMAX screens.


It begs the question...what is next? It is an exciting time

What is next?

I tell you Peter... One of the things that is coming next is our soon to be announced Global Movie Theater Chain in full 3D 4K glory bigger then IMAX, that actually will have a MUCH WIDER showing criteria for Stories... And I promise yo that will not only be the Image on this HUGE screen coming form RED LASER Projectors that will please you, but the design, comfort, quality of foods and beverages, and most importantly also the reduced pricing...

RED has been bringing some insane stuff to us, sometimes late some times really late, but this time... PERFECT TIMING...

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Yeah this kinda bums me out. I wanna light it. Now HAL gets to.

Just because computers simulate light doesn't make the craft any different. A digital lighter and a practical lighter do the exact same thing. HAL is just your best boy and grip.

 

[Tom Greenberg]

I keep hearing people talk from people around me about how they are waiting for the next camera. How they like camera x, but they are going to wait until it has feature y. Once that's available, then, finally digital cinema cameras have arrived.

And how important workflow is, and how this whole 'RAW' thing just doesn't lead to efficient workflows. Then you dig a bit, and you find out they're on PowerPC Macs trying to limp along with old copies of FCP, and the real reason they're bashing on RAW is that they'd have to upgrade their technology and their knowledge.

Just last night, I was on the phone helping a producer work through technology (knowledge) issues on a program shot on 720p HDV tape. Thinking back, I personally haven't touched a HDV tape in...5 years? But they can't get their 'workflow' figured out, even though the production house decided to buy this camera new a year ago, because they needed 'proven technology' they could 'rely on'. Which, as far as I can tell is code words for "I already don't know what I'm doing, and they'll be on to me if we get something out of my comfort zone!"

Most of the pushback is coming from people that are terrified of what all this means. They know the 'future' has arrived. They're not ready for it. They haven't keep their skills up. Their knowledge up. We're in a period of rapid technology change. Old icons are falling. New ones are rising to take their places.

It's a sobering thought that we all need to take to heart. We all need to keep our eyes and minds open. Absorb what is around us, what is coming. Make the most of it. Or be left behind.

Those people that are waiting for cameras to have 'one more feature' are at serious risk of letting that knowledge, skill and experience gap open into a chasm they may never bridge.

Mark, this is a great post! In my experience, more people justify their resistance to change because of their own fears of ignorance or inadequacy than any other reason. It seems like the more someone defends the status quo, the more insecure they are about the future.

 

[Shane Betts]

Man, I love where this thread has gone. Two kids of people in this world my friend. Those who change and those who deliver pizzas.