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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

All Oscar Nominated films were shot on Arri or IMAX

J

Jim Skinner

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I love my Scarlet-W and Scarlet-MX cameras, but I feel that the budget for a move up (to Helium or Monstro) would be better spent on a Alexa Mini. When I read news like this (below) it reinforces that concern. The article shows every single camera used on every single Oscar nominated film, and there is not one single RED in there.

Do you folks see the same bias against RED in narrative filmmaking?

https://twitter.com/c5dnews/status/972177619335696384?s=21
 
I agree, that pound for pound, we (RED shooters) bring higher resolution, more interesting looks, etc.
 
I'm more interested in STORIES. To me, camera choices are more like auto choices.

I choose to drive my stories in a RED.
 
Without getting into too deep of a reply since I'm about to go on a drive, I think there's two things to keep in mind to keep yourself from being too discouraged, well maybe three:
- If you look at a lot of those films, in the credits you'll see ARRI Rental which provides both cameras and lighting for productions. While that's not the only thing that goes into picking the camera for the production, it certainly helps that you can get world class lighting and camera in one from essentially the manufacturer.
- It's important to keep in mind that ARRI has been around for a long time. Relatively speaking, RED is a newcomer and has had and will have an uphill battle on the academy award level. That's not to say films shot on RED haven't been nominated either, The Martian was in 2016 for example.
- As a final thought, RED's sensor technology is just getting better and better, and R3D processing continues to improve with IPP2. On the other end, ARRI's ALEV III sensor has been consistently good, but the industry is moving toward 4K and higher. With the Alexa LF coming out, 4K adoption is going to be a bigger thing than it already is, so the comparison at that price point becomes Monstro and LF. Ultimately though, a camera is just a tool and a choice in the production. A lot of those films would have looked equally as fantastic shot on one or the other.
 
I agree with Brandon. If all of those nominated productions were shot on a different camera, they would still be nominated.

It just happens to be the case that a lot of productions either chose ARRI because of the name, or have ARRI forced upon them. This will eventually end. Twin Peaks season 3 was not especially great visually, so I fail to see what the Alexa brought to the production.
 
There are plenty of good reasons to get a Red, but if you're shooting a feature and aren't looking to own the camera then there are even more good reasons to shoot on an Arri. It's obviously subjective choice, but subjectively, I own a Red because I can't afford an Arri. I feel like a lot of people either drink the Red Koolaid or pretend otherwise.
 
I own both Cameras and My Minis are always on set and my REDS are on the shelves, I love using both but the Mini is the hottest camera to use right now. When it comes to my projects I love the REDs I know a lot of Productions are not a fan of the amount of Data REDs use. The mini is more friendly to DITs as well.
 
Jim Skinner said:
Do you folks see the same bias against RED in narrative filmmaking?
Click to expand...
I don't think there's a bias against Red in filmmaking. I think there's a preference for Alexa or film. That's not the same thing.

There is no mass plot or sinister conspiracy: many major DPs like what they like. It's just a line item on the budget, and 99% of these shows and features just rent the camera package. If anything, Alexa costs a little more to rent than a comparably-priced Red Dragon or Helium, and Alexa 6K or LF 4K will be a lot more expensive, so it's not a question of money.

There are still lots and lots of movies being shot on Red, but what you have to consider is that giving DPs choices is always a good thing. There used to be only one or two good 4K cameras out there; now you have Canon, the Panasonic Varicam and Varicam LT, the Sony F55 and Venice, and now Alexa LF and 6K. Plus film. Every cinematographer has preferences, and they have the freedom to choose whatever camera they think is most appropriate for their situation. And the truth is that there have been stunning movies, commercials, TV shows, and shorts shot on all of them.

What is true is that there are a lot of shows and films being made where the producers hiring the DP tell them, "we've made a deal for Camera X. Are you comfortable with that?" If the DP says no, they'd rather use Camera Y, there's a good chance the producers may say, "OK, sorry we couldn't work together. Bring the next guy in!" I don't like that the choice of camera and control of post is not solely the province of the DP, but that's kind of the way things have been going for awhile.
 
Karim D. Ghantous said:
I agree with Brandon. If all of those nominated productions were shot on a different camera, they would still be nominated.

It just happens to be the case that a lot of productions either chose ARRI because of the name, or have ARRI forced upon them. This will eventually end. Twin Peaks season 3 was not especially great visually, so I fail to see what the Alexa brought to the production.
Click to expand...

I agree about the nominations.

The other part, that's simply not true. Been involved in these discussions on many projects and my experience has been that most of the time, the choice to go Alexa has been the DP's preference for the look that camera provides. They also have preferred in many cases the actual design of the camera as well, especially as it relates to AC's.

And, those who I have seen choose RED often do so for the same reasons. They like the image, they like having the extra resolution, they like the modularity.

Yes, there are times when cameras are chosen for the wrong reasons. But the reality is, many DPs, especially those who are coming over from film like the look of the Alexa. RED is seeing a lot of traction too. They seem to often be the choice for these big special effects movies. That alone is pretty cool when you think about how relatively new RED is in the camera business. To be the choice on movies with $200 million dollar budgets is a triumph.

As I have said before, the fact that RED exists is very important for the industry because it creates healthy competition that trickles down to us, the end users. We want them to push each other. We want innovation. We want to see the impossible achieved. I can't even imagine what the technology will look like in 2030, but someone can and they will push the limits. Maybe it will be RED. Maybe it will be Arri. Or maybe it will be the new RED.

Also, it's probably important to not overlook the thing that makes images really come to life which is lighting. What advances in lighting technology will we see over the next 10-15 years, and how will that impact the films that are being nominated for Oscars?
 
From the ASC article about Annihilation.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g0oukqfkdwpvrfy/Photo Mar 12, 8 49 59 AM.png?dl=0

This same crew shot Ex Machina entirely on the F65 and F55. Then, for this film, Rob Hardy decided to shoot the "natural" stuff on the F65/55 and then shot the "Area X" stuff on the 6k Weapon Dragon, because the camera/lens combo worked better for the look he was trying to achieve.

A camera is a tool, not a monogamous relationship.

(But for the sake of this thread, and to quell your fears, I'll point out that the final cut of Annihilation ended up being about 70% R3D. Yet, I'm willing to bet that not a single person walked out of the theater thinking to themselves, "That was just ok. But if they had shot it on an Alexa Mini it would have been amazing!" Because of course they didn't. That's not why the average person goes to see a movie. Especially not a movie like Annihilation.)
 
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It's funny how our industry is so caught up in cameras, that oftentimes, we forget that story is king, and it's the story that really wins the Oscar. So while it's great talking camera geek stuff, and oh that movie was shot on this, or that, it really isn't the reason why people go to the movies, and I don't think it ever will be.
 
Chris I would love to agree with you. Unfortunately I watched two oscar winners so far and did not last the whole movie in either. Awfull stories, boring execution, wonderful cinematography- at least in one of them. so maybe that's what we need to look for as good stories fade away....
 
Jacek Zakowicz said:
Chris I would love to agree with you. Unfortunately I watched two oscar winners so far and did not last the whole movie in either. Awfull stories, boring execution, wonderful cinematography- at least in one of them. so maybe that's what we need to look for as good stories fade away....
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Which movies?
 
Cameras are tools.

RED's are more prevalent on commercials than features, as far as I can tell.

But again, it's the story that counts.

RED is clearly doing something right, as Arri has followed their example numerous times: smaller form factor, larger sensor sizes, and yes...more K's.
 
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